Pre-1533 Nuremberg Snap-Tinderlock Arquebuses - the REAL TREASURES of the BOM JESUS !

Matchlock · 13th August 2014, 01:27 PM

http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/misfortune-bom-jesus-diamond-shipwreck-001731#!bCExlR

8 June, 2014 - 00:53

The Misfortune of the Bom Jesus,
the Diamond Shipwreck

The so-called Age of Discovery in Europe began in the early 15th century, and produced numerous well-known explorers such as Vasco da Gama, Ferdinand Magellan, and Christopher Columbus. But there were countless others who lost their lives undertaking their perilous journeys, and as a result, became lost to the pages of history. Nevertheless, the discovery of shipwrecks, lying like skeletons on the ocean floor, resurrects the stories of these long-forgotten explorers, as researchers attempt to piece together the events of their voyage and the circumstances in which they met their final fate.

One such example is the ‘Diamond Shipwreck’.
This was a shipwreck discovered in the sands of the Sperrgebiet (meaning ‘Prohibited Area’ in German), which is the rich and off-limits De Beers diamond-mining lease near the mouth of the Orange River on Namibia’s southern coast.

In 2008, a company geologist working in the mining area U-60 came across what seemed to be a perfectly half sphere of rock. After picking up this rock and having a closer look at it, he realized that it was actually a copper ingot. On its weathered surface was a peculiar trident-shaped mark, which turned out to be the hallmark of Anton Fugger, one of Renaissance Europe’s wealthiest financiers.

The Diamond Shipwreck. Copyright: Amy Toensing

Archaeologists would eventually find an immense amount of these ingots beneath the sands (22 tonnes in total!), along with

weapons
(arquebuses and swords),
armor,
bronze cannons,
cannon balls,

pewter bowls, ivory tusks, and of course gold. The gold was in the form of coins, more than 2,000 in total, mainly Spanish excelentes bearing the likenesses of the monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella, but also some Venetian, Moorish, French and other coinage. As the shipwreck was in the middle of one of the world’s most jealously guarded diamond mines, it is little wonder that its contents had been safe from treasure hunters all this time.

One of the coins uncovered in the Diamond Shipwreck. Copyright: Amy Toensing

More interestingly, for archaeologists at least, is the ship itself (along with some of the less sparkly artefacts). The ship itself is an East Indiaman from Portugal, and is dated to the 1530s. These were the ships used by traders during the Age of Discovery to bring exotic goods from Asia back to Europe, and brought great wealth to their respective nations. Despite the importance of these ships, there is much that is unknown about them, as the ‘Diamond Shipwreck’ is said to be only the second East Indiaman ever excavated by archaeologists. Therefore, this discovery will be able to give archaeologists new insights into the technical aspects of the ship, from its hull design, rigging, and even the way they evolved over time. Furthermore, as the cargo of this ship is intact, it enables archaeologists to piece together what life was like onboard a trading vessel, including the way food was cooked on the ship and the things that were brought by the explorers.

No story is complete, however, without actors. Based on the available clues, it has been suggested that the ‘Diamond Shipwreck’ was once a ship called the Bom Jesus (Good Jesus). This ship was captained by a Dom Francisco de Noronha, and carried around 300 sailors, soldiers, merchants, priests, nobles, and slaves.

There has also been some speculation about the fate of these men. For a start, the only human remains recovered from the wreck are several toe bones in a shoe found pinned beneath a mass of timbers. Furthermore, few personal belongings were among the artefacts. Thus, archaeologists believe that many on board the ship managed to make it to dry land. Nevertheless, the harsh conditions of the land may have killed them off, as it was a barren wasteland that stretched for hundreds of kilometres, and it was winter. On the brighter side, the Orange River lay about 25 kilometers to the south of the shipwreck, and the castaways may have made it there. Moreover, the Portuguese might have met natives, as winter was the season when indigenous tribes ventured along the shore in search of the carcasses of southern right whales that were occasionally washed ashore. In short, it appears that we will never know the final fate of these adventurers.

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************

While most people still seem to be interested in diamonds and gold most of all, dreaming their 'pirates' vision inspired dreams, my first thought was right away:

THE c. 1525 type NUREMBERG SNAP-TINDERLOCK ARQUEBUSES

that, among other goods, the Bom Jesus was taking to India!

Way before even taking a first glance at what actually turned out to be two stamp-size (!) printed photos, showing some details of an arquebus stock salvaged, I was well aware of the doubtless fact that the Nuremberg gunmakers guild was trying to sell off first, and especially overseas!, the remaining number of a technically outdated model of Landsknecht guns - rather than the latest stage of Nuremberg technologic evolution of mechanism (in terms of all mechanical parts being united on an iron! lock plate).

So I feel sufficiently sure to exactly predict what the mechanisms of the Bom Jesus arquebuses must have looked like - before even getting a glimpse of an actually salvaged specimen.
And mind you: At least a chest full of completely preserved arqebuses was found:

See attachments no. 2 and 3!

Best,
Michl/Michael

Michael Trömner
Rebenstr. 9
D-93326 Abensberg
Germany

Self-established Academic Medievalist

Graduated from Regensburg University in 1982

Stipendiary recipient and Member of the Studienstiftung des deutschen Volkes, Bonn

Author of BEHÄLTNISSE FÜR KOSTBARES 1500-1700, 2005

Member of vikingsword.com, with more than 4.100 threads and posts since 2008

M. of the Arms & Armour Society, London since 1991
M. of the Gesellschaft für Historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde e.V., Berlin since 1987

Expertises in European weapons, ironworks and furniture of the 14th through 17th centuries

Preservation and scientific documentation of museum collections

Matchlock · 13th August 2014, 03:14 PM

I definitely doubt the alledged fact that attachment no. 1 shows a touch hole prick (German: Räumnadel); in my opinion, this long needle with the double scroll to its upper end was a bodkin used for long hair.

Such a long and delicate object would have bent and broken right away, at the very first tryto prick the fouled-up touch hole of any gun ...

Further down in this thread, I will attach photos of two actual wrought iron pricks preserved in
The Michael Trömner Collection.

Best,
Michael Trömner

Matchlock · 13th August 2014, 03:23 PM

Attached to this and the following post, find some photos

of Nuremberg made snap-tinderlock arquebuses with lateral push-button triggers, and with only the serpentine riveted on a small brass plate while all the other mechanical parts like the long forward-mounted one-armed main spring (mostly made of hammered brass) were inlaid in recesses cut out of the stock, and covered up with a thin plate of wood.
A long brass-hammered spring of exactly this type is illustrated on one of the scans I made of photos of arquebuses discovered in the wreck of the Bom Jesus.

The arquebuses on my photos are preserved in the historical armories of
the Západočeské muzeum v Plzni, Czechia,

and
the Brukenthal-Museum Sibiu,
Romania.

Please note the Nuremberg control mark struck as a sign of quality on the barrel of one of the Sibiu arquebuses.

The latest stage of technological development, now uniting all parts of snap-tinder/snap-matchlock mechanism on one iron lock plate, Nuremberg, ca. 1530, is represented by a short arquebus preserved in the reserve collection/storage rooms of the Hessisches Landesmuseum Darmstadt (bottom attachments).

Although the lock mechanism is missing from the latter gun, the lock recess cut out of the limewood full stock clearly denotes its pointed triangular shape.
Please also note that this arquebus, for the first time, features the 'modern' form of a trigger (German: Züngleinabzug or Abzugszüngel), which is protected by a rectangular trigger guard!

Please also cf. Alexender's threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske

and my threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske

Best,
Michael

Photos of the Pilsen and Darmstadt arquebuses copyrighted by the author, Michael Trömner.

Photos of the Sibiu arquebusees copyrighted by the Brukenthal-Museum Sibiu/Hermannstadt.

Matchlock · 13th August 2014, 03:44 PM

Top 5 attachments:

A Nuremberg made snap-tinder/snap-matchlock arquebus of ca. 1530, the lock recess showing the contours of a triangular shaped lock plate which united all the mechanical parts of the action.

Together with a contemporary Italian snap-tinderlock arquebus preserved in

The Michael Trömner Collection,

this gun at the storage rooms of the Hessisches Landesmusum Darmstadt, inv.-no. W 61:100, is the oldest known gun to feature, for the first time, showing the presence of the 'modern' type of trigger replacing the lateral push-button that had been used to trigger the snapping serpentines from ca. 1490-1530.

Furthermore, these two contemporary arquebuses of ca. 1530 are equipped with a vertical type of trgigger guard, for protection of the first triggers mounted on the underside of the stock, beneath the lock mechanism. The Nuremberg made arquebus in Darmstadt features an especially delicate type of trigger.

Attachment no. 6 depicts an action of the very same type, on another Nuremberg imported arquebus in the Brukenthal-Museum Sibiu, ca. 1530-35.

The author's thesis is that the arquebuses on the Bom Jesus were not yet equipped with that kind of 'modern' triggers and trigger guards.

Best,
Michael

All photos copyrighted by the author, Michael Trömner.

dana_w · 22nd August 2014, 03:31 PM

You have outdone yourself again Michael!

I only wish I could read German. None of the articles (and photos!) I have found on the Bom Jesus in English can match the one you've posted here.

fernando · 22nd August 2014, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... The gold was in the form of coins, more than 2,000 in total, mainly Spanish excelentes bearing the likenesses of the monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella, but also some Venetian, Moorish, French and other coinage....

Other coinage is in fact Portuguese coins, as per the original texts, something which is more than obvious, once the ship was Portuguese. Actually the coin shown in the (Amy Toensing) picture above is a silver "tostão" of the King Dom João III realm.This is a very important detail, once the mintage of these coins had started in 1525, having all units been withdrawn from circulation in 1538, to be molten and not put back to use, for the presence of these coins in such good condition is a strong evidence that this ship was launched to sea during this 13 years interval.
Also the Spanish gold "excelentes", which represent 70% of the gold coins present in the wreck, are a vital detail for history, as it didn't occur to archeologists that the Spanish investors, as it appears, had a great contribution to this Portuguese expedition, such an unusual fact.

Matchlock · 25th August 2014, 07:12 PM

Thank you so much, Dana W and Nando!

I'm trying to make contacts with one of the authors, Dr. Wolfgang Knabe, in order to get more and better images!
After all, I can tell them a whole lot on these guns that they don't know, so it will be worth swapping facts, thoughts and theories - and I'm looking forward to an enthralling exchange of important pieces of our minds.

Best,
m

dana_w · 25th August 2014, 07:26 PM

Have you seen this article Michael?

http://geschimagazin.wordpress.com/2...ng-ein-unikat/

Matchlock · 25th August 2014, 11:59 PM

NO, Dana W -

I haven't!

Thanks a zillion!!!

Please do send a PM (private message); I'm looking forward to receiving it ...

With all my very best regards and wishes,
Michael

fernando · 29th August 2014, 03:14 PM

Some more pictures of the salvaged parts.
The artillery (the falconets and the famous berços), the elephant tusks and the copper ingots for trade, the ship's astrolabes, the inumerous coins and an early sylized illustration of the Bom Jesus.
Also a section of the main mast, where may be seen the masthead in which laid the topsail basket and the rigging fixation.

.

Matchlock · 29th August 2014, 06:27 PM

Hi there,

Attached please find some images of the powder horns and brass-cast ball molds found on the wreck of the Bom Jesus; sadly, I had to zoom them up from stamp-sized images printed in the book.

They are characteristic of the Italian taste of the 1520's to 1530's, readily copied by Nuremberg manufacturers by ca. 1525-30.
From ca. 1530, powder horns started getting replaced by trapezoid flasks.
Horns were re-enlivened from ca. 1580 through ca. 1650. They just got flattened, and a hook was added for attaching the flask to the leather frog of the caliverman they were reserved for.
The musketeer, in contrast, was equipped with two trapezoid powder flasks: a larger one for the barrel powder and a small priming flask. Alternatively, he carried just the bandelier, either together with a small trapezoid priming flask, or one of the tube-like powder containers on the bandelier was reserved for priming; in the latter case, its top had a nozzle.

The text of the book states that the horns were of unusually high quality, and therefore cannot not have been part of the equipment of the common mercenary/Landsknecht arquebusier.
Three contemporary sources of illustration of ca. 1525 -1533 re-attached prove the contrary.
It is commonly known that most mercenaries could afford to wear costumes reflecting the topic taste of style, and of high quality; the same is true for their 'high-tech' equipment.

For closest comparison to horns and earliest flasks, please refer to my threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tle+pavia+1525
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525

For more on earliest ball molds etc., please see my threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=bullet+molds
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525

Best,
Michael Trömner

Matchlock · 29th August 2014, 08:24 PM

Please note the technically topic state of the mechanisms mounted on the horns, for exactly measuring the correct load of powder needed for each shot.
Also, in the painting by Ruprecht Heller dated 1529, the earliest trapezoid flasks are portrayed to have been used in the Battle of Pavia in 1525
(two attachments at bottom).

m

Matchlock · 29th August 2014, 09:10 PM

.

13th August 2014, 01:27 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Pre-1533 Nuremberg Snap-Tinderlock Arquebuses - the REAL TREASURES of the BOM JESUS ! http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/misfortune-bom-jesus-diamond-shipwreck-001731#!bCExlR 8 June, 2014 - 00:53 The Misfortune of the Bom Jesus, the Diamond Shipwreck The so-called Age of Discovery in Europe began in the early 15th century, and produced numerous well-known explorers such as *Vasco da Gama, Ferdinand Magellan, and Christopher Columbus. But there were countless others who lost their lives undertaking their perilous journeys, and as a result, became lost to the pages of history. Nevertheless, the discovery of shipwrecks, lying like skeletons on the ocean floor, resurrects the stories of these long-forgotten explorers, as researchers attempt to piece together the events of their voyage and the circumstances in which they met their final fate. One such example is the ‘Diamond Shipwreck’. This was a shipwreck discovered in the sands of the* Sperrgebiet (meaning ‘Prohibited Area’ in German), which is the rich and off-limits De Beers diamond-mining lease near the mouth of the Orange River on Namibia’s southern coast. In 2008, a company geologist working in the mining area U-60 came across what seemed to be a perfectly half sphere of rock. After picking up this rock and having a closer look at it, he realized that it was actually a copper ingot. On its weathered surface was a peculiar trident-shaped mark, which turned out to be the hallmark of Anton Fugger, one of Renaissance Europe’s wealthiest financiers. The Diamond Shipwreck. Copyright: Amy Toensing Archaeologists would eventually find an immense amount of these ingots beneath the sands (22 tonnes in total!), along with weapons (arquebuses and swords), armor, bronze cannons, cannon balls, pewter bowls, ivory tusks, and of course gold. The gold was in the form of coins, more than 2,000 in total, mainly Spanish excelentes bearing the likenesses of the monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella, but also some Venetian, Moorish, French and other coinage. As the shipwreck was in the middle of one of the world’s most jealously guarded diamond mines, it is little wonder that its contents had been safe from treasure hunters all this time. One of the coins uncovered in the Diamond Shipwreck. Copyright: Amy Toensing More interestingly, for archaeologists at least, is the ship itself (along with some of the less sparkly artefacts). The ship itself is an East Indiaman from Portugal, and is dated to the 1530s. These were the ships used by traders during the Age of Discovery to bring exotic goods from Asia back to Europe, and brought great wealth to their respective nations. Despite the importance of these ships, there is much that is unknown about them, as the ‘Diamond Shipwreck’ is said to be only the second East Indiaman ever excavated by archaeologists. Therefore, this discovery will be able to give archaeologists new insights into the technical aspects of the ship, from its hull design, rigging, and even the way they evolved over time. Furthermore, as the cargo of this ship is intact, it enables archaeologists to piece together what life was like onboard a trading vessel, including the way food was cooked on the ship and the things that were brought by the explorers. No story is complete, however, without actors. Based on the available clues, it has been suggested that the ‘Diamond Shipwreck’ was once a ship called the Bom Jesus (Good Jesus). *This ship was captained by a Dom Francisco de Noronha, and carried around 300 sailors, soldiers, merchants, priests, nobles, and slaves.* There has also been some speculation about the fate of these men. For a start, the only human remains recovered from the wreck are several toe bones in a shoe found pinned beneath a mass of timbers. Furthermore, few personal belongings were among the artefacts. Thus, archaeologists believe that many on board the ship managed to make it to dry land. Nevertheless, the harsh conditions of the land may have killed them off, as it was a barren wasteland that stretched for hundreds of kilometres, and it was winter. On the brighter side, the Orange River lay about 25 kilometers to the south of the shipwreck, and the castaways may have made it there. Moreover, the Portuguese might have met natives, as winter was the season when indigenous tribes ventured along the shore in search of the carcasses of southern right whales that were occasionally washed ashore. In short, it appears that we will never know the final fate of these adventurers. ************************************************ ********************************************** ********************************************** ************************ While most people still seem to be interested in diamonds and gold most of all, dreaming their 'pirates' vision inspired dreams, my first thought was right away: THE c. 1525 type NUREMBERG SNAP-TINDERLOCK ARQUEBUSES** that, among other goods, the Bom Jesus was taking to India! Way before even taking a first glance at what actually turned out to be two stamp-size (!) printed photos, showing some details of an arquebus stock salvaged, I was well aware of the doubtless fact that the Nuremberg gunmakers guild was trying to sell off first, and especially overseas!, the remaining number of a technically outdated model of Landsknecht guns - rather than the latest stage of Nuremberg technologic evolution of mechanism (in terms of all mechanical parts being united on an iron! lock plate). So I feel sufficiently sure to exactly predict what the mechanisms of the Bom Jesus arquebuses must have looked like - before even getting a glimpse of an actually salvaged specimen. And mind you: At least a chest full of completely preserved arqebuses was found: See attachments no. 2 and 3! Best, Michl/Michael Michael Trömner Rebenstr. 9 D-93326 Abensberg Germany Self-established Academic Medievalist Graduated from Regensburg University in 1982 *Stipendiary recipient and Member of the Studienstiftung des deutschen Volkes, Bonn* *Author of BEHÄLTNISSE FÜR KOSTBARES 1500-1700, 2005* *Member of vikingsword.com, with more than 4.100 threads and posts since 2008* *M. of the Arms & Armour Society, London since 1991* *M. of the Gesellschaft für Historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde e.V., Berlin since 1987* Expertises in European weapons, ironworks and furniture of the 14th through 17th centuries Preservation and scientific documentation of museum collections Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 14th August 2014 at 01:06 PM.

13th August 2014, 03:14 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I definitely doubt the alledged fact that attachment no. 1 shows a touch hole prick (German: Räumnadel); in my opinion, this long needle with the double scroll to its upper end was a bodkin used for long hair. Such a long and delicate object would have bent and broken right away, at the very first tryto prick the fouled-up touch hole of any gun ... Further down in this thread, I will attach photos of two actual wrought iron pricks preserved in The Michael Trömner Collection. Best, Michael Trömner Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 14th August 2014 at 01:34 PM.

13th August 2014, 03:23 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Attached to this and the following post, find some photos of Nuremberg made snap-tinderlock arquebuses with lateral push-button triggers, and with only the serpentine riveted on a small brass plate while all the other mechanical parts like the long forward-mounted one-armed main spring (mostly made of hammered brass) were inlaid in recesses cut out of the stock, and covered up with a thin plate of wood. A long brass-hammered spring of exactly this type is illustrated on one of the scans I made of photos of arquebuses discovered in the wreck of the Bom Jesus. The arquebuses on my photos are preserved in the historical armories of the Západočeské muzeum v Plzni, Czechia, and the Brukenthal-Museum Sibiu, Romania. Please note the Nuremberg control mark struck as a sign of quality on the barrel of one of the Sibiu arquebuses. The latest stage of technological development, now uniting all parts of snap-tinder/snap-matchlock mechanism on one iron lock plate, Nuremberg, ca. 1530, is represented by a short arquebus preserved in the reserve collection/storage rooms of the Hessisches Landesmuseum Darmstadt (bottom attachments). Although the lock mechanism is missing from the latter gun, the lock recess cut out of the limewood full stock clearly denotes its pointed triangular shape. Please also note that this arquebus, for the first time, features the 'modern' form of a trigger (German: Züngleinabzug or Abzugszüngel), which is protected by a rectangular trigger guard! Please also cf. Alexender's threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske and my threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=zapadoceske Best, Michael Photos of the Pilsen and Darmstadt arquebuses copyrighted by the author, Michael Trömner. Photos of the Sibiu arquebusees copyrighted by the Brukenthal-Museum Sibiu/Hermannstadt. Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 14th August 2014 at 02:23 PM.

13th August 2014, 03:44 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Top 5 attachments: A Nuremberg made snap-tinder/snap-matchlock arquebus of ca. 1530, the lock recess showing the contours of a triangular shaped lock plate which united all the mechanical parts of the action. Together with a contemporary Italian snap-tinderlock arquebus preserved in The Michael Trömner Collection, this gun at the storage rooms of the *Hessisches Landesmusum Darmstadt, inv.-no. W 61:100,* is the oldest known gun to feature, for the first time, showing the presence of the 'modern' type of trigger replacing the lateral push-button that had been used to trigger the snapping serpentines from ca. 1490-1530. Furthermore, these two contemporary arquebuses of ca. 1530 are equipped with a vertical type of trgigger guard, for protection of the first triggers mounted on the underside of the stock, beneath the lock mechanism. The Nuremberg made arquebus in Darmstadt features an especially delicate type of trigger. Attachment no. 6 depicts an action of the very same type, on another Nuremberg imported arquebus in the Brukenthal-Museum Sibiu, ca. 1530-35. The author's thesis is that the arquebuses on the Bom Jesus were not yet equipped with that kind of 'modern' triggers and trigger guards. Best, Michael All photos copyrighted by the author, Michael Trömner. Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 14th August 2014 at 02:58 PM.

29th August 2014, 03:14 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Some more pictures of the salvaged parts. The artillery (the falconets and the famous berços), the elephant tusks and the copper ingots for trade, the ship's astrolabes, the inumerous coins and an early sylized illustration of the Bom Jesus. Also a section of the main mast, where may be seen the masthead in which laid the topsail basket and the rigging fixation. . Attached Images

22nd August 2014, 03:31 PM	#5
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	You have outdone yourself again Michael! I only wish I could read German. None of the articles (and photos!) I have found on the Bom Jesus in English can match the one you've posted here.

25th August 2014, 07:12 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you so much, Dana W and Nando! I'm trying to make contacts with one of the authors, Dr. Wolfgang Knabe, in order to get more and better images! After all, I can tell them a whole lot on these guns that they don't know, so it will be worth swapping facts, thoughts and theories - and I'm looking forward to an enthralling exchange of important pieces of our minds. Best, m

25th August 2014, 07:26 PM	#8
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Have you seen this article Michael? http://geschimagazin.wordpress.com/2...ng-ein-unikat/

25th August 2014, 11:59 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	NO, Dana W - I haven't! Thanks a zillion!!! Please do send a PM (private message); I'm looking forward to receiving it ... With all my very best regards and wishes, Michael

29th August 2014, 06:27 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi there, Attached please find some images of the powder horns and brass-cast ball molds found on the wreck of the Bom Jesus; sadly, I had to zoom them up from stamp-sized images printed in the book. They are characteristic of the Italian taste of the 1520's to 1530's, readily copied by Nuremberg manufacturers by ca. 1525-30. From ca. 1530, powder horns started getting replaced by trapezoid flasks. Horns were re-enlivened from ca. 1580 through ca. 1650. They just got flattened, and a hook was added for attaching the flask to the leather frog of the caliverman they were reserved for. The musketeer, in contrast, was equipped with two trapezoid powder flasks: a larger one for the barrel powder and a small priming flask. Alternatively, he carried just the bandelier, either together with a small trapezoid priming flask, or one of the tube-like powder containers on the bandelier was reserved for priming; in the latter case, its top had a nozzle. The text of the book states that the horns were of unusually high quality, and therefore cannot not have been part of the equipment of the common mercenary/Landsknecht arquebusier. Three contemporary sources of illustration of ca. 1525 -1533 re-attached prove the contrary. It is commonly known that most mercenaries could afford to wear costumes reflecting the topic taste of style, and of high quality; the same is true for their 'high-tech' equipment. For closest comparison to horns and earliest flasks, please refer to my threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tle+pavia+1525 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525 For more on earliest ball molds etc., please see my threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=bullet+molds http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ia+heller+1525 Best, Michael Trömner Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 29th August 2014 at 08:19 PM.

29th August 2014, 08:24 PM	#12
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Please note the technically topic state of the mechanisms mounted on the horns, for exactly measuring the correct load of powder needed for each shot. Also, in the painting by Ruprecht Heller dated 1529, the earliest trapezoid flasks are portrayed to have been used in the Battle of Pavia in 1525 (two attachments at bottom). m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 29th August 2014 at 08:54 PM.

29th August 2014, 09:10 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	. Attached Images