Indonesian? Short Sword for Comment

[RobT]

Hi All,

Given the look of the Damascus and the blade profile, I believe that the blade is Indonesian but to me, the hilt looks more Philippine (and more recent). The mostly single edge blade measures about 16.5" (about 42cm) long with the last 6.5" (16.5cm) double edged. The hilt ferrule is steel and oddly shaped. Even under magnification, I can't find a seam so I imagine that it was originally a pipe that was forged to shape. The sheath is ill fitting and probably not original to the blade. The cavity inside the sheath is cut to fit a very straight, double edged blade. While the sheath itself looks Indonesian, the two remaining steel bands have joins that that I have seen Philippine sheaths.

Sincerely,
RobT

[David]

Looks like this is a pedang suduk maru. I can't really see the hilt very clearly in your photos. Might be Sumatran or possibly Javanese.

[kai]

Yes, I'm with David - more pics from the hilt (all sides)!

[A. G. Maisey]

Yep, Jawa.

[RobT]

David, kai, A. G. Maisey,

Thanks for the ID. I will post more shots of the hilt tomorrow. From what I saw online, there is a common form which includes a cross guard but there are a good number of specimens which don't have a cross guard and have variously shaped hilts. However, none of the hilts I saw were short and chunky like mine so I will really be interested in your comments when I post more detailed shots of the hilt and ferrule that came with my blade. One thing is for sure, looking at the online pictures of the various sheaths shows that the sheath I have doesn't belong with the blade.

Sincerely,
RobT

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually Rob, I'd be quite happy to accept the scabbard as acceptable for this pedang.

This is very humble pedang, and a plain, simple scabbard such as this pedang has is quite in order. Even if the scabbard was not made for this blade in the first place, it is still in my opinion 100% OK for it.

[RobT]

Hi All,

In my last post I had said that I would post hilt pictures on Sunday but the stomach virus that hit me had other plans so here are the shots a day late. The steel ferrule is really odd.

A. G. Maisey,

Its nice to know that the sheath is at least acceptable (if a bit ill fitting).

Sincerely,
RobT

[A. G. Maisey]

This hilt form is usually done in kerbau horn, when it has been done in Solo the carver will usually intend it to be a representation of the Rojomolo, the spirit of the Bengawan Solo (Solo River). However, it can be intended to be any spirit world form, any mythical form, or none at all.

This is an explanation given to me by several hilt carvers in Solo during the 1970's & 1980's.

As with many of these things, only the carver would have known the true answer.

Actually this particular hilt looks like the product of an owner of the pedang, not somethng done by a professional carver.

[David R]

I always find it interesting when something looks like a "user" rather than a "poser". I am profoundly ignorant of blades from this area, but also very interested in them..... to me this looks like a "user"!

[RobT]

A. G. Maisey,

Thanks for the hilt ID. I agree with you that it is likely a homemade hilt. As I said before, the blade appears to be older than the hilt. Perhaps the original hilt was damaged and sword's owner couldn't afford a professionally made replacement. The carver did a nice abstraction for an amateur but better still, if it is a homemade hilt made by a member of traditional Indonesian society for an heirloom blade, it is unlikely that the hilt shape would be culturally inappropriate for the sword. I still wonder about the oddly shaped steel ferrule however. Was it part of the original hilt or was it made by a local smith for the new hilt?

David R,

Users are mostly what I collect. I have a few "Prince's" pieces but I am mostly interested in the type blade carried by the professional soldier or the baker's son.

Sincerely,
RobT

[A. G. Maisey]

Definitely culturally appropriate.

I'd sooner not guess on the ferrule.

[naturalist]

Resembling of "ceker kidang" (Barking Deer/Muntjac foot) ?

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

In my last post I had said that I would post hilt pictures on Sunday but the stomach virus that hit me had other plans so here are the shots a day late. The steel ferrule is really odd.

A. G. Maisey,

Its nice to know that the sheath is at least acceptable (if a bit ill fitting).

Sincerely,
RobT

[RobT]

naturalist,

Given the shape on the bottom of the pommel of my hilt, your ID of ceker kidang is tempting but there is one thing that must be noted. There a good many online examples of swords with ceker kidang hilts and, in virtually every example, the back of the hilt curves smoothly down to the pommel. The only exceptions I could find were newly made (very late 20th to 21st century). While my hilt may not be original to the blade, it does have some age and those less traditionally shaped new hilts don't look like mine either. It must be asked then, why would someone making a replacement handle for himself go against a culturally accepted norm? Especially since the traditional shape would be easier to make.

Sincerely,
RobT

[A. G. Maisey]

I guess if this pedang were Sundanese, rather than Javanese , we could perhaps call the hilt a ceker kidang style, but I don't think this name is used in Jawa, at least I've never heard it used in Central Jawa, and in Javanese the combination of "ceker" --- a claw, a chicken leg, a hand --- together with "kidang" --- a small deer --- sounds pretty peculiar.

It sounds queer to me, but I'm not a native speaker of Javanese, so I ran it past a couple of native speakers of Javanese, and it didn't wash with them either.

In Sundanese "ceker" means the foot of a little animal, and in Indonesian it can mean either "foot" or "claw".

I feel that perhaps the name "ceker kidang" might be Jakarta in origin.

[naturalist]

Most of my office mates are Sundanese, since my office is in Bogor, West Java. I took this opportunity to ask them what is "Ceker". For them, ceker is referring to chicken feet (all are younger than me, i don't know how deep they are into their culture). However, i found that in some parts of Betawi communities around Jakarta Province (Betawi who are living in West Java, but close to Jakarta), ceker also has meaning as the feet of ungulate.
In Javanese, the verb form of ceker is ceceker it means looking for food (as the chicken do to look for something on the ground using their feet or what we are doing for living-connotation). Javanese also use cekeran/nyeker to describe a situation when we (humans) are in bare naked feet. We (Javanese) do have a rude form of it, it is "cokoran/nyokor". So, as in some communities in West Java that are using ceker not only for chicken leg, Javanese also use ceker in a broad meaning.
I did pass the pictures above to my colleagues, all said the handle is "ceker kidang".

Anton

[Interested Party]

It does look like the profile of a deer's foot.