bardiche

bvieira · 8th June 2019, 07:17 PM

Hello,

Got this bardiche moments ago, very heavy and big, it was a coat of arms with the letters "eva" ? what do you guys think about it ? anybody knows the coat of arms ? family ? city ?

Thanks!

Victrix · 8th June 2019, 11:21 PM

I think these things were mostly known to be used by the Russian streltsy? The mark looks like a city coat of arms as the ”crown” consists of a series of fortified towers. The animal looks like a bear. Berlin has a bear in its coat of arms.

corrado26 · 9th June 2019, 10:00 AM

The only cities over here with a bear looking to the left are the Suisse cities of Bern and St. Gallen.
corrado26

Victrix · 9th June 2019, 11:15 AM

I think the coat of arms is a city rather than canton. Berlin (see pic) is a long shot. Does the mark show half a bear and water? The EVA lead is also a conundrum. By the way, the letter V does not exist in the Russian alphabet so the origin must be further West.

MacCathain · 10th June 2019, 12:49 AM

I'd say that's a lion with a long, serpentine tongue. . . much like those found in heraldic devices. I don't think heraldic bears are often depicted with their tongues lolling out of their mouths.

A closer shot of the stamp, with some judicious side lighting, might help.

GIO · 10th June 2019, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

I think these things were mostly known to be used by the Russian streltsy? The mark looks like a city coat of arms as the ”crown” consists of a series of fortified towers. The animal looks like a bear. Berlin has a bear in its coat of arms.

To me the animal seems more like a donkey.
As to the letters they could read RVA or SVA. The first letter is not clear.

bvieira · 10th June 2019, 08:52 AM

Hello,

I think the animal is a bear or a wolf!

Tks

BV

bvieira · 10th June 2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

I think the coat of arms is a city rather than canton. Berlin (see pic) is a long shot. Does the mark show half a bear and water? The EVA lead is also a conundrum. By the way, the letter V does not exist in the Russian alphabet so the origin must be further West.

Yes there is water in the logo, straight lines and water bellow.

bvieira · 10th June 2019, 12:46 PM

I think Victrix is right (thanks for giving the right direction) this coat of arms has something to do with Berlin, the bear and the castles represent berlin for sure, now there is aditional lines and water an ofcourse the letters.

From my personal exprience with old weapons, this weapon is big (too big to go anywhere with it, the "portable" bardiche's are much more small and light, i know because i have one too ), it's the kind of weapon that remains in a castle or palace to protect it from intrusion, maybe one the polearm's of some palace guard ? maybe the coat of arms is a representation of some military force/guard or a family related to berlin ?

GIO · 10th June 2019, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvieira

Hello,

I think the animal is a bear or a wolf!

Tks

BV

Yes, I agree. Now the image is much more detailed. Also the letters are clearly EVA.

bvieira · 23rd June 2019, 01:24 AM

After some cleaning!

fernando · 24th June 2019, 03:21 PM

How old do you guys think this berdiche would be ?

CSinTX · 25th June 2019, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

How old do you guys think this berdiche would be ?

I hate to say it but I think it looks modern. Holes that appear to be drilled with a machine, the thick and heavy blade, hammer marks look similar to other modern forgings. Just one persons opinion and I could be wrong.

Victrix · 25th June 2019, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

I hate to say it but I think it looks modern. Holes that appear to be drilled with a machine, the thick and heavy blade, hammer marks look similar to other modern forgings. Just one persons opinion and I could be wrong.

You could also be right. I reacted to the second photo which shows quite a lot of what appears to be active rust. Then there’s the metal glint around the holes which suggests that the holes were added later after the item started to rust. But as always, it’s difficult to form an opinion from photos.

bvieira · 25th June 2019, 07:16 PM

Hello,

First of all thanks for all the opinions!

About the holes being drilled after i do not agree, the person/s who build it take in atention several more dificult details, it would make no sense they would leave this weapon (even if it was a modern replica) with no holes, it would not seem a bardiche!

About the weapon not being very old i agree, i have a otoman/russian bardiche as i said earlier this weapons were lightweight and the shaft is not very long, this one is heavy and has a long shaft, i searched and i found out there were a astria/germany version of the bardiche used from the 17th to the 19th century much more big and robust used mostly as a guard pole arm at palaces and castles, having this one a coat of arms in it that appears to be related to Berlin i really think this weapon came from german and was made somewhere in the 19th century as a functional weapon that would have sucess in attacking somebody with a armour instead of a traditional bardiche that doesn't have the necessary weight and rigidity to do it.

Ofcourse i can be wrong in my opinion, this is such a rare weapon that i only manage to found 1 example of a austrian/germany bardiche. If iam wrong i would love to know who made it and buy more weapons from him!

Regards,

BV

8th June 2019, 07:17 PM	#1
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	bardiche Hello, Got this bardiche moments ago, very heavy and big, it was a coat of arms with the letters "eva" ? what do you guys think about it ? anybody knows the coat of arms ? family ? city ? Thanks! Attached Images

9th June 2019, 11:15 AM	#4
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 710	I think the coat of arms is a city rather than canton. Berlin (see pic) is a long shot. Does the mark show half a bear and water? The EVA lead is also a conundrum. By the way, the letter V does not exist in the Russian alphabet so the origin must be further West. Attached Images Last edited by Victrix; 9th June 2019 at 01:20 PM.

10th June 2019, 08:52 AM	#7
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Hello, I think the animal is a bear or a wolf! Tks BV Attached Images

10th June 2019, 12:46 PM	#9
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	I think Victrix is right (thanks for giving the right direction) this coat of arms has something to do with Berlin, the bear and the castles represent berlin for sure, now there is aditional lines and water an ofcourse the letters. From my personal exprience with old weapons, this weapon is big (too big to go anywhere with it, the "portable" bardiche's are much more small and light, i know because i have one too ), it's the kind of weapon that remains in a castle or palace to protect it from intrusion, maybe one the polearm's of some palace guard ? maybe the coat of arms is a representation of some military force/guard or a family related to berlin ? Attached Images

23rd June 2019, 01:24 AM	#11
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	After some cleaning! Attached Images

8th June 2019, 11:21 PM	#2
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 710	I think these things were mostly known to be used by the Russian streltsy? The mark looks like a city coat of arms as the ”crown” consists of a series of fortified towers. The animal looks like a bear. Berlin has a bear in its coat of arms.

9th June 2019, 10:00 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	The only cities over here with a bear looking to the left are the Suisse cities of Bern and St. Gallen. corrado26

10th June 2019, 12:49 AM	#5
MacCathain Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 66	I'd say that's a lion with a long, serpentine tongue. . . much like those found in heraldic devices. I don't think heraldic bears are often depicted with their tongues lolling out of their mouths. A closer shot of the stamp, with some judicious side lighting, might help.

24th June 2019, 03:21 PM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	By the way ... How old do you guys think this berdiche would be ?

25th June 2019, 07:16 PM	#15
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Hello, First of all thanks for all the opinions! About the holes being drilled after i do not agree, the person/s who build it take in atention several more dificult details, it would make no sense they would leave this weapon (even if it was a modern replica) with no holes, it would not seem a bardiche! About the weapon not being very old i agree, i have a otoman/russian bardiche as i said earlier this weapons were lightweight and the shaft is not very long, this one is heavy and has a long shaft, i searched and i found out there were a astria/germany version of the bardiche used from the 17th to the 19th century much more big and robust used mostly as a guard pole arm at palaces and castles, having this one a coat of arms in it that appears to be related to Berlin i really think this weapon came from german and was made somewhere in the 19th century as a functional weapon that would have sucess in attacking somebody with a armour instead of a traditional bardiche that doesn't have the necessary weight and rigidity to do it. Ofcourse i can be wrong in my opinion, this is such a rare weapon that i only manage to found 1 example of a austrian/germany bardiche. If iam wrong i would love to know who made it and buy more weapons from him! Regards, BV