Old Uyghur Knives?

[driftwould]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find out some information about old/antique Uyghur knives from Xinjiang, China, their history and development and where and how to get them. I've been to Xinjiang twice and gotten some really nice modern ones (all hand made in the traditional way, please see attached), but there seems to be a real black hole about information about old ones. The only thing I can find across the whole internet is this completed Ebay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Chin...p2047675.l2557

The seller told me he got the item from an old woman whose husband had been there in the 20's or 30's. Any idea how to find more information? It's shaping up to be a real mystery!

Thanks

[TVV]

I believe we have discussed knives similar to the one in the eBay listing. I may stand corrected on this, but they look like North African and relatively recent to me, so I very much doubt the Uyghur attribution.

The modern examples you have posted are similar to modern examples from Uzbekistan. This makes perfect sense and one could guess that Uyghur knives were likely not very different than the knives of other Turkic groups to the West of them in Central Asia. Searching for "pichok" (derived from bicag, or knife in Turkish) will probably produce some results.

Regards,
Teodor

[ariel]

They are very much Uighur:-) And, of course, similar to the Uzbeki /Turkestani pichoks. Not a miracle: neighbourly and very closely related people. North-West China, Yengissar.

And very new, no more than 20 years old, likely much less.


For those of you who can read Russian ( Teodor, can you hear me ? :-)), here is a link to the Russian site with long and detailed discussion of these knives. And for the linguistically-challenged, the pics are plentiful.
Enjoy!
http://rusknife.com/topic/8629-ножи-суар/

[driftwould]

Originally Posted by ariel

They are very much Uighur:-) And, of course, similar to the Uzbeki /Turkestani pichoks. Not a miracle: neighbourly and very closely related people. North-West China, Yengissar.

And very new, no more than 20 years old, likely much less.


For those of you who can read Russian ( Teodor, can you hear me ? :-)), here is a link to the Russian site with long and detailed discussion of these knives. And for the linguistically-challenged, the pics are plentiful.
Enjoy!
http://rusknife.com/topic/8629-ножи-суар/

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Yes, they are actually 2 years old, I bought them in Xinjiang on my recent trip, as I mentioned. But what about the one in the Ebay link? You seem to know something about Uyghur/Uighur knives, can you tell me anything about old ones, or direct me to info (or even better- PICTURES!! :^D )? I'm looking for more info about the old variety, but I can't find any.

I'll be looking into Uzbek and other Central Asian knives as well.

[Sajen]

Only want to add the pictures from the auction for later reference!

Regards,

Detlef

[Gavin Nugent]

There is a good link on HF sword forum too but not at my finger tips...perhaps one of our members who reads Chinese well can better place it here. I will look when I have the time.

I have several fine antique Pichoq in my collections along with an interesting Khyber knife with a pommel more akin to these knives than the typical horn mounted Afghan ones...its blade is well recurved and shows a nice pattern welding seen more on Chinese weapons....exact origins have always puzzled me a little but these regions are so wonderfully diverse.

There are a few books on Uzbekistan and surrounding regions that show these knives too...as I am moving home most of my books are now packed away but one title from memory is "Uzbekistan, heirs to the silk road", there may be some in "A song in metal" too if I recalled the title correct???

Gavin

[TVV]

Thank you for the link Ariel. While the thread is mostly about modern production, it seems that the traditional form is the pichok. After European contact, there have been multiple influences, leading to a variety of new forms. Some interesting history on Soviet meddling in the region as well.

Teodor

[ariel]

Originally Posted by TVV

Some interesting history on Soviet meddling in the region as well.

Teodor

An understatement of the year:-)

[driftwould]

Sajen:

Thanks for posting those pics, good idea.

TVV:

Thanks for the reply. Just to reiterate, when I posted this I really was looking for info on older types of blades that the modern ones I posted pics of descended from, and still am. The info about links to Uzbek knives is great and I'll be learning more about that the first chance I get.

SwordsAntiqueWeapons:

I read 中文 reasonably well (and live in Taiwan, so have lots of native speaking friends), but since I'm just starting out I'm still pretty unfamiliar with a lot of websites. If you can post the link you mentioned at HF sword forum that would be great- I did a Google search for HF sword forum but didn't find the site you were talking about... (yeah, newbie! ) The books sound great, please post more titles specific to Central Asian knives and other traditional weapons when you get a chance!