New handle

Marcokeris · 4th October 2007, 04:10 PM

I would like to know the forum-friends' opinion about works made by electric machines ( dentist's drill and similar) on some new keris's hilt.
In my opinion even if some works are astounding for their "in deep accuracy" (with a manual work anyway assured) ...however the figure of the "artist" is a little lost to the detriment of a bigger precision.

Here below a picture of a very new Bali horn hilt where i think electric machine is been used.

ganjawulung · 8th October 2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I would like to know the forum-friends' opinion about works made by electric machines ( dentist's drill and similar) on some new keris's hilt.
In my opinion even if some works are astounding for their "in deep accuracy" (with a manual work anyway assured) ...however the figure of the "artist" is a little lost to the detriment of a bigger precision.

Here below a picture of a very new Bali horn hilt where i think electric machine is been used.

Hi Marco,

Times are changing. The use of welding technique, has also changed the perfection of "pamor miring". Ron genduru, or lar gangsir pamor, is more perfect now, thanks to the use of welding technique...

Ganjawulung

Marcokeris · 8th October 2007, 01:01 PM

Thanks, Ganja

David · 8th October 2007, 02:44 PM

I think it is a beautiful hilt in a classic, traditional form. Tools don't make the artist, unless, of course, the actual carving is being taken over by computer programs, which i don't think is the case here. I personally have no problem with it. I would think that new technology is also a 2-edged sword (pun intended

). Power drills may on one hand make carving easier, but i'll bet it's much easier also to make a fatal mistake. I don't think modern tools remove the artist from the equation at all. You could certainly sit most of us down with the same tools and materials and we would never come up withy a piece nearly as good as you example posted here.

jonng · 9th October 2007, 12:20 PM

Hi Marco,

I think the use of power tools is inevitable when it comes to keris hilts. How many master carvers are still active in Indonesia nowadays?
Ideally, carvers should rely on their traditional hand-made tools. I believe the use of power tools will create a barrier between the carver ( creator ) and the hilt he is trying to creat. Just like an Empu who is trying to imbue the kris blade with his creative and spiritual energy/ force, the carver should feel the same about what he wants to creat. If he is able to achieve this, the result will speak of itself.
The hilt you have posted is technically impressive and not without it's merit, but just too clinical perhaps. But still, it beats a lot of what is being produced nowadays.

B/rgds,
jonathan

A. G. Maisey · 9th October 2007, 03:01 PM

I have found these comments quite interesting. They remind me very much of comments in another thread which related to traditional working methods in the forge.

The carving that is the focus of discussion here is a pretty fair piece of work. Certainly it is not brilliant art, but it is a good example of the modern carver's craft.

Most importantly, it is affordable.

To accomplish the same, or a similar result with hand tools would take---how long?

Would the piece of work done with hand tools be equally affordable?

No, it would not.

It is perhaps a nice feeling to decry the loss of traditional working methods, but these artist/craftsmen must live , as do we all need to live. If they only produce works that are beyond the reach of all but very wealthy people, the craft will eventually die.

In my opinion we should praise the use of these modern working methods which make available to clerks and carpenters , the art and craft which was in the past the exclusive prerogative of princes.

lemmythesmith · 9th October 2007, 10:38 PM

Hi Marco, love the hilt!! I agree with David, Alan and Ganja-yes, it's incredibly easy to make a really bad mistake with power tools when carving, if you make a slip with the dremel it WILL (sod's law)cut much deeper than when you're carving intentionally! As always today the almighty dollar rules most crafts, power tools give you a little more speed when carving but don't make it that much easier.

Any chance of some more photos, all round views of the hilt?

Marcokeris · 13th October 2007, 12:43 PM

Thanks to all kerisfriend.
Sorry Lemmy but i have only one photo.

4th October 2007, 04:10 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	New handle I would like to know the forum-friends' opinion about works made by electric machines ( dentist's drill and similar) on some new keris's hilt. In my opinion even if some works are astounding for their "in deep accuracy" (with a manual work anyway assured) ...however the figure of the "artist" is a little lost to the detriment of a bigger precision. Here below a picture of a very new Bali horn hilt where i think electric machine is been used. Attached Images

8th October 2007, 01:01 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Thanks, Ganja

8th October 2007, 02:44 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I think it is a beautiful hilt in a classic, traditional form. Tools don't make the artist, unless, of course, the actual carving is being taken over by computer programs, which i don't think is the case here. I personally have no problem with it. I would think that new technology is also a 2-edged sword (pun intended ). Power drills may on one hand make carving easier, but i'll bet it's much easier also to make a fatal mistake. I don't think modern tools remove the artist from the equation at all. You could certainly sit most of us down with the same tools and materials and we would never come up withy a piece nearly as good as you example posted here.

9th October 2007, 12:20 PM	#5
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Hi Marco, I think the use of power tools is inevitable when it comes to keris hilts. How many master carvers are still active in Indonesia nowadays? Ideally, carvers should rely on their traditional hand-made tools. I believe the use of power tools will create a barrier between the carver ( creator ) and the hilt he is trying to creat. Just like an Empu who is trying to imbue the kris blade with his creative and spiritual energy/ force, the carver should feel the same about what he wants to creat. If he is able to achieve this, the result will speak of itself. The hilt you have posted is technically impressive and not without it's merit, but just too clinical perhaps. But still, it beats a lot of what is being produced nowadays. B/rgds, jonathan

9th October 2007, 03:01 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	I have found these comments quite interesting. They remind me very much of comments in another thread which related to traditional working methods in the forge. The carving that is the focus of discussion here is a pretty fair piece of work. Certainly it is not brilliant art, but it is a good example of the modern carver's craft. Most importantly, it is affordable. To accomplish the same, or a similar result with hand tools would take---how long? Would the piece of work done with hand tools be equally affordable? No, it would not. It is perhaps a nice feeling to decry the loss of traditional working methods, but these artist/craftsmen must live , as do we all need to live. If they only produce works that are beyond the reach of all but very wealthy people, the craft will eventually die. In my opinion we should praise the use of these modern working methods which make available to clerks and carpenters , the art and craft which was in the past the exclusive prerogative of princes.

9th October 2007, 10:38 PM	#7
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi Marco, love the hilt!! I agree with David, Alan and Ganja-yes, it's incredibly easy to make a really bad mistake with power tools when carving, if you make a slip with the dremel it WILL (sod's law)cut much deeper than when you're carving intentionally! As always today the almighty dollar rules most crafts, power tools give you a little more speed when carving but don't make it that much easier. Any chance of some more photos, all round views of the hilt?

13th October 2007, 12:43 PM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Thanks to all kerisfriend. Sorry Lemmy but i have only one photo.