North African Ithink but can anyone nail it down in more detail

Craig Johnson · 27th October 2005, 02:59 AM

Hello All

I have been doing some cleaning and restoration work on this piece for a fellow and wanted to give him some more details when I send it back. Its a fairly nice piece, the blade is hex in cross section with the fuller on each side the engraving is bold and deep really nice. The hilt is bronze most likely and the sword is very tight.

I will post several pics

Craig

Rick · 27th October 2005, 03:47 AM

That is one beautiful Sudanese Kaskara !!
Do you think the blade is European Craig ?

Craig Johnson · 27th October 2005, 04:41 AM

Hey Rick

Thanks I was unsure if it fit in that area or not. I have not seen that many of these.

My guess is the blade is indigenous. It is finely done but the elements such as the finish, blade geometry, engraving and dynamics don't seem like European manufacture to me. I had some stats for it but I left them at work. I will post them in the morning.

Craig

RSWORD · 27th October 2005, 01:15 PM

I am not so sure that this Kaskara is Sudanese. When looking closely at this piece, there are many differences to a Sudanese Kaskara and I would propose this may be an Arabic example and a nice and rare example at that. A few observations. First, the scabbard chape ends in a V shape which is much more common in Middle Eastern and Arabic scabbards and not the very typical flared scabbard tip found on Sudanese examples. Second, the decoration on the scabbard mounts are the tendrils or vines motif that is again more common in Middle Eastern and Arabic decoration then Sudanese. Third, the grip is hexagonal with a hexagonal pommel that is domed or mushroom shape versus the typical round grip and round pommel found on even the most elaborate of Sudanese examples. Also, the use of bronze is most unusual for a Sudanese example. Also, the use of a tang button is not usually found on Sudanese examples. I am curious how the leather is stitched up. Does it have coil stitching? Perhaps we are looking at an Omani Kaskara? Zanzibar? In any case, there are many strong Arabic elements that make this example quite different from the elements found on Sudanese examples. Really a lovely sword!

ariel · 27th October 2005, 01:33 PM

I agree with RSWORD 100%: very South Arabian!
Beautiful sword!
Any chance the owner wants a divorce?

Craig Johnson · 27th October 2005, 05:18 PM

Hello Everyone

Here are the specs

Kaskara

General Dimensions

Overall Length: 1047mm 41.25"
Blade Length quillon block to tip: 896mm 35 5/16"
Weight: 1316 gr 2.9 lbs
Balance point from quillon block: 186 mm 7.25"
Blade node: 596mm 23.5"
Rotational point: 375mm 14.75"

Hilt Dimensions

Grip Length: 97mm 3.8"
Quillon Width: 170mm 6.7"
Quillon Height at center: 12mm .47" Langet 72mm 2.8"
Quillon Thickness at center: 27mm 1"
Pommel Width: 48mm 1.88"
Pommel Height: 44mm 1.7"
Pommel Thickness: 30mm 1.2"

Blade dimensions

Blade Width at quillon block: 47mm 1.85"
Blade Width at midpoint : 42mm 1.65"
Blade Width 2 inches from tip: 34mm 1.33"
Blade Thickness at quillon block: 4mm .15" 5/32"
Blade Thickness at midpoint: 3mm .12" 1/8"
Blade Thickness 2 inches from tip: 2mm .08" 3/32"

Fuller Length: Lion side 285mm 11.2" Sun side 334mm 13.1"
Fuller Width: Lion side 9mm .35" Sun side 8mm .31"

Ah that might explain my inability to find something close. I was searching through North Africa type references and not Arabian.

The scabbard stitching is a straight stitch, i.e. the leather is stitched as an inside out sock and then turned right side out and slide over the wood of the scabbard body. That?s one of the indicators I am using for a later date as opposed to an earlier time frame. I figure late 19th early 20th C. What do others think?

Best
Craig

Tim Simmons · 27th October 2005, 05:54 PM

I would agree with RS and ariel. The only part that looks especially Sudanese is the guard. The work on the scabbard does not appear to be as well done as on the weapons handle. The miss match of workmanship on the scabbard could indicate the the blade and handle are of an earlier 19th century date. Tim

Rick · 27th October 2005, 06:32 PM

I was pretty far off in my identification of origin ; but I have to wonder if blades as nice as this one appears to be with these inscriptions were made in the 20thC .

Craig Johnson · 29th October 2005, 04:03 AM

Hello Rick

I was thinking very early 20th C. I know the piece was in a storage situation more a neglected stash situation from the mid thirties on untill recently. The scabbard on the blade the whole time. But it could definitely be 19th C as well.

Best
Craig

Flavio · 30th October 2005, 02:43 PM

HELLO CRAIG, I SEE A VERY SIMILAR SWORD ON THE SITE anthro.amnh.org AND THERE, IS ATTRIBUITED TO EGYPT, ACQUIRED IN THE 1974 (BUT THE REAL AGE OF THE SWORD COULD BE MORE ANCIENT). I PICK THE OCCASION TO SHOW YOU MY LAST PURCHASE

Craig Johnson · 30th October 2005, 04:07 PM

Hello Flavio

Thank you. Thats by far the closest match I have been able to find so far. In fact that is close enough to say its definitely in the same tradition, and probably the same time period and local.

Your sword looks very nice I especially like the blade. Does the fuller go the whole way to the tip?

Best Regards
Craig

Flavio · 30th October 2005, 04:53 PM

Thank you Craig. Yes the fuller go the whole way to the tip.

27th October 2005, 02:59 AM	#1
Craig Johnson Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 12	North African Ithink but can anyone nail it down in more detail Hello All I have been doing some cleaning and restoration work on this piece for a fellow and wanted to give him some more details when I send it back. Its a fairly nice piece, the blade is hex in cross section with the fuller on each side the engraving is bold and deep really nice. The hilt is bronze most likely and the sword is very tight. I will post several pics Craig Attached Images

27th October 2005, 04:41 AM	#3
Craig Johnson Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 12	Blade Hey Rick Thanks I was unsure if it fit in that area or not. I have not seen that many of these. My guess is the blade is indigenous. It is finely done but the elements such as the finish, blade geometry, engraving and dynamics don't seem like European manufacture to me. I had some stats for it but I left them at work. I will post them in the morning. Craig

27th October 2005, 05:18 PM	#6
Craig Johnson Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 12	Specs Hello Everyone Here are the specs Kaskara General Dimensions Overall Length: 1047mm 41.25" Blade Length quillon block to tip: 896mm 35 5/16" Weight: 1316 gr 2.9 lbs Balance point from quillon block: 186 mm 7.25" Blade node: 596mm 23.5" Rotational point: 375mm 14.75" Hilt Dimensions Grip Length: 97mm 3.8" Quillon Width: 170mm 6.7" Quillon Height at center: 12mm .47" Langet 72mm 2.8" Quillon Thickness at center: 27mm 1" Pommel Width: 48mm 1.88" Pommel Height: 44mm 1.7" Pommel Thickness: 30mm 1.2" Blade dimensions Blade Width at quillon block: 47mm 1.85" Blade Width at midpoint : 42mm 1.65" Blade Width 2 inches from tip: 34mm 1.33" Blade Thickness at quillon block: 4mm .15" 5/32" Blade Thickness at midpoint: 3mm .12" 1/8" Blade Thickness 2 inches from tip: 2mm .08" 3/32" Fuller Length: Lion side 285mm 11.2" Sun side 334mm 13.1" Fuller Width: Lion side 9mm .35" Sun side 8mm .31" Ah that might explain my inability to find something close. I was searching through North Africa type references and not Arabian. The scabbard stitching is a straight stitch, i.e. the leather is stitched as an inside out sock and then turned right side out and slide over the wood of the scabbard body. That?s one of the indicators I am using for a later date as opposed to an earlier time frame. I figure late 19th early 20th C. What do others think? Best Craig

27th October 2005, 06:32 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Well ........ I was pretty far off in my identification of origin ; but I have to wonder if blades as nice as this one appears to be with these inscriptions were made in the 20thC .

29th October 2005, 04:03 AM	#9
Craig Johnson Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 12	Time frame Hello Rick I was thinking very early 20th C. I know the piece was in a storage situation more a neglected stash situation from the mid thirties on untill recently. The scabbard on the blade the whole time. But it could definitely be 19th C as well. Best Craig

27th October 2005, 03:47 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	That is one beautiful Sudanese Kaskara !! Do you think the blade is European Craig ?

27th October 2005, 01:15 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	I am not so sure that this Kaskara is Sudanese. When looking closely at this piece, there are many differences to a Sudanese Kaskara and I would propose this may be an Arabic example and a nice and rare example at that. A few observations. First, the scabbard chape ends in a V shape which is much more common in Middle Eastern and Arabic scabbards and not the very typical flared scabbard tip found on Sudanese examples. Second, the decoration on the scabbard mounts are the tendrils or vines motif that is again more common in Middle Eastern and Arabic decoration then Sudanese. Third, the grip is hexagonal with a hexagonal pommel that is domed or mushroom shape versus the typical round grip and round pommel found on even the most elaborate of Sudanese examples. Also, the use of bronze is most unusual for a Sudanese example. Also, the use of a tang button is not usually found on Sudanese examples. I am curious how the leather is stitched up. Does it have coil stitching? Perhaps we are looking at an Omani Kaskara? Zanzibar? In any case, there are many strong Arabic elements that make this example quite different from the elements found on Sudanese examples. Really a lovely sword!

27th October 2005, 01:33 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree with RSWORD 100%: very South Arabian! Beautiful sword! Any chance the owner wants a divorce?

27th October 2005, 05:54 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I would agree with RS and ariel. The only part that looks especially Sudanese is the guard. The work on the scabbard does not appear to be as well done as on the weapons handle. The miss match of workmanship on the scabbard could indicate the the blade and handle are of an earlier 19th century date. Tim

30th October 2005, 02:43 PM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	HELLO CRAIG, I SEE A VERY SIMILAR SWORD ON THE SITE anthro.amnh.org AND THERE, IS ATTRIBUITED TO EGYPT, ACQUIRED IN THE 1974 (BUT THE REAL AGE OF THE SWORD COULD BE MORE ANCIENT). I PICK THE OCCASION TO SHOW YOU MY LAST PURCHASE Attached Images Last edited by Flavio; 30th October 2005 at 02:57 PM.

30th October 2005, 04:07 PM	#11
Craig Johnson Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 12	Egyptian Hello Flavio Thank you. Thats by far the closest match I have been able to find so far. In fact that is close enough to say its definitely in the same tradition, and probably the same time period and local. Your sword looks very nice I especially like the blade. Does the fuller go the whole way to the tip? Best Regards Craig

30th October 2005, 04:53 PM	#12
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Craig. Yes the fuller go the whole way to the tip.