Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th November 2010, 12:25 PM   #1
Freddy
Member
 
Freddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium)
Posts: 830
Question New African (?) sickle knife

Just came back from the weekly antiques market in Gent (Belgium)....and I found this sickle knife which intrigues me.

At first sight, it is not the typical African sickle knife as we all know. I'm not even sure it's African

The wooden handle is embellished with copper nails and shows a good patina.

The metal blade is sharpened on the inside. Near the handle it's 8 mm thick. It also has 6 holes drilled into the top part. There's also an iron ferrule between the handle and the blade.

Total length is 63 cm (from bottom of handle to tip of the blade).

Does anyone has an idea ?









Freddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2010, 01:25 PM   #2
Freddy
Member
 
Freddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium)
Posts: 830
Arrow Any ideas ?

No one has a comment ?

Luc ?
Freddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2010, 01:44 PM   #3
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Unusual piece - I have never seen one like it. The iron round the handle near the blade appears on some small Chokwe knives, and holes in the blade are not uncommon on Congo weapons, as are the brass studs...

Regards.
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2010, 05:31 PM   #4
Luc LEFEBVRE
Member
 
Luc LEFEBVRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 472
Default

No idea, sorry.
Maybe more a tool than a weapon ?
Luc LEFEBVRE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2010, 04:35 AM   #5
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Freddy

That blade seems quite thick for an African blade even kukri like in appearance? Do you think this was converted from some other knife or tool? Still I like it,very cool
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2010, 04:32 PM   #6
ronpakis
Member
 
ronpakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: netherlands
Posts: 75
Default cickle knife

hi freddy,

it reminds me of a javanese tool for cutting crops, kudi type. should be found in different books on this matter. zonneveld?

greets ron
ronpakis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2010, 05:32 PM   #7
fearn
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew
Freddy

That blade seems quite thick for an African blade even kukri like in appearance? Do you think this was converted from some other knife or tool? Still I like it,very cool
Hi Lew,

Wasn't there a thread back in the mists that talked about old African weapons being thick and fully functional?

To me, that handle looks African, but who knows? We're in a global world, and maybe an African artist got inspired by something he saw in a Korean factory...

Anyway, I'm not bothered by a thick blade.

Best,

F
fearn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2010, 05:52 PM   #8
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Fearn

The hilt seems to be from an old 19th century tool so maybe this was converted into the knife we see here today. Luc also can not place it and he has probably seen them all
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2010, 07:59 PM   #9
Freddy
Member
 
Freddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium)
Posts: 830
Arrow

Thanks for the input, guys.

The blade is 8 mm thick near the handle.

I've examined this piece this weekend and although the handle looks African, the blade doesn't. It just doesn't feel 'African'.

And yeah, the blade is a bit shaped like a kukri....and very sharp.

The ferule between the handle and the blade is not new. Judging from the patina, it has been there quite some time.

Could be a tool, but could also be a weapon. Why would anyone bother to embellish the handle of his tool with nails ?

Weight of this piece is just over 700 grams.
Freddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2010, 09:15 PM   #10
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
Default

My first feeling was a sickle shaped indonesian weapon. A clurit. I googled on clurit and found clurit with holes in the blade. The piece gives me an oriental feeling.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2010, 08:02 PM   #11
fearn
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
Default

I guess the thing that bothers me about Indonesia are the copper nails as decoration, and what really looks like a Christian cross (albeit upside-down) on the handle.

Are we going towards a Christian minority piece here? Possibly with Portuguese or other European influence?

Best,

F
fearn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2010, 08:52 PM   #12
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy
Could be a tool, but could also be a weapon. Why would anyone bother to embellish the handle of his tool with nails ?
I would think that the nails increase the grip on the handle. I also wouldn't bank on the "cross" at the end having anything to do with Christianity. Sometimes a cross pattern is just a cross pattern. Even if it were meant to be symbolic the design is one of the oldest in existence and could pertain to many things.
The blade does look S.E. Asian to me.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2010, 10:44 PM   #13
Billman
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 129
Default

African tools and weapons, e.g. Mangbetu knives, are frequently found in Belgium - many came from the various parts of the former Belgium Congo (in 1960 it became the Democratic Republic of Congo). Many colonialists brought back souveniers of their time there - so it was found in the right place to be of possible African origin.

Many agricultural tools were exported to the colonies, often as bare blades, and handled locally. I recently saw for sale an african sickle - with a german edge tool maker's stamp on the blade - blade german, handle african - what does that make it????

Your tool however, is reminiscent in shape to the Gurka kukhri - many other forms of billhook and sickle exist in Nepal - it is possible yours is a relative of this well known weapon/tool...

Ref the decoration on the handle - many tools from Europe and other parts of the world are highly decorated - carved wooden plane bodies, punched marks on billhook blades, ornately turned handles - by comparison the few nails in this handle pale into insignificance...

They do not get much more ornate than this presentation french billhook from the 18th century
Attached Images
 
Billman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.