Dutch hunting sword in Parang Nabur fashion.

[Dmitry]

This is a listing I saw in one of the old Peter Finer catalogs.
The seller wrote that the hilt had Dutch markings, but the shape of the hilt reminds me of the Parang Naburs from Borneo, a Dutch outpost from the 1600s into the last century.
Does the pommel show a Makara-like creature, or is it my imagination? The mascaron on the down-turned guard is a conventional European 'Green Man'.
I wonder if this piece was indeed produced in Holland in a Parang Nabur fashion, or the hilt was imported from Borneo, and assembled in Holland. South-East Asian hilts of that vintage [18th c.] for the European trade are not common, but do exist.

[Lew]

What I find interesting is the "Green Man" motif which usually indicates British origin and not Dutch?

[Dmitry]

Green Man was a near ubiquitous folkloric motif throughout the Western Europe, not just in Britain. For instance, Walloon-hilted swords of similar vintage as the sword above, perhaps 50 years earlier, sometimes feature the Green Man mask inset in the shell guards.
It did find a second life in the Victorian Britain during the Gothic Revival.

[Jim McDougall]

Dmitry, beautifully observed and eloquently described on the fascinating elements of this beautiful sword! Thank you for adding the detail on the 'green man' image as well, as that information really helps in better understanding this intriguing figure, which indeed was widely known through Europe.

I believe this hilt was likely fashioned in Holland using the parang nabur as a model. It seems well established that Europeans, obviously in Holland in particular with thier VOC ships returning with exotic weapons as well as the commerce, were fascinated by these . As recently discussed, in the 17th century Rembrandt used some of them in his works.

Merchants were notoriously flamboyant and status conscious and these hunting swords and hangers were key elements of fashion by the 18th century as well as smallswords. It seems there are examples of European made hangers that are made in the style of the kastane of then Ceylon, and English merchants are seen in several cases wearing 'nimcha' from trade with Morocco (these were not English made however).

I havent been able to find the heart and hammer mark among resources yet, anybody out there seen this?

Thank you for posting this Dmitry, and again for the outstanding description!!

All the best,
Jim

[kai]

Hello Dmitry,

the shape of the hilt reminds me of the Parang Naburs from Borneo, a Dutch outpost from the 1600s into the last century.

This doesn't look like a Beladah Belabang hilt to me: Some vague semblance but the construction as well as motifs and other details are most likely European not Negara. I also have never seen a fully cast BB hilt and I for one would be very weary having to rely on any silver guard in battle...

Does the pommel show a Makara-like creature, or is it my imagination

Too human; does look European to me, too.

Regards,
Kai

[Mytribalworld]

HI Dimitry,

That's turning the history upside down a little as the parang nabur design was inspired by european sword/sabre models.
I doubt however if in 1740 the parang nabur already existed. The main production was as far as I know 1800-1900.
Motifs etc are far too european to be of Borneo origin.

Other thing is that there where enough high skilled smiths in Holland around that time ( 1740) so there was no need to import handles form far.

best wishes,

Arjan

[Dmitry]

That's absolutely true, there was no need, but there was a desire and a market. Japanese shakudo-decorated hilts were imported en masse into Europe by the Dutch throughout the 1700s. British imported Indian-made damascened hilts for small-swords. I have also seen a very interesting example made in Vietnam for the European market.

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Dmitry,


This doesn't look like a Beladah Belabang hilt to me: Some vague semblance but the construction as well as motifs and other details are most likely European not Negara. I also have never seen a fully cast BB hilt and I for one would be very weary having to rely on any silver guard in battle...



Too human; does look European to me, too.

Regards,
Kai

Kai, there would be no battle. A person who owned it probably didn't even wipe his own rear end or washed his face, pardon my French. He had people who did it for him.
I am not a world-renown expert on hunting swords, but I will assure you that I have never seen another one like it. That is why I am curious of this particular piece.

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

That's absolutely true, there was no need, but there was a desire and a market. Japanese shakudo-decorated hilts were imported en masse into Europe by the Dutch throughout the 1700s. British imported Indian-made damascened hilts for small-swords. I have also seen a very interesting example made in Vietnam for the European market.

yes indeed but that was because the shaduko techinique was unknown in europe those days. Casting silver was highly developped here ( Holland)

[Dmitry]

Damascening was also used in Europe since the early days, yet the Indian damascened hilts were imported by the British in the mid to late 1700s.
Or, for instance, this silver hilt for a hunting sword, which was allegedly made in Vietnam.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

HI Dimitry,

That's turning the history upside down a little as the parang nabur design was inspired by european sword/sabre models.
I doubt however if in 1740 the parang nabur already existed. The main production was as far as I know 1800-1900.
Motifs etc are far too european to be of Borneo origin.

Other thing is that there where enough high skilled smiths in Holland around that time ( 1740) so there was no need to import handles form far.

best wishes,

Arjan

Not to interrupt conversation, but 100% right about the reverse being true with the parang nabur influence coming from European swords, and I had completely overlooked that in my comments. I know little on these swords but knew of course of VOC presence in those regions.

Apparantly there is some degree of confusion on the sword hilts of brass known as Tonquinese, as the term suggests the regions of now Vietnam. These hilts, typically of smallsword fashion, were made in the Far East between 1710-50 to the order of the VOC (Aylward, 1945, p.57) but the author suggests the Tonquinese term is unlikely as the Dutch withdrew thier factory from Tonquin in 1707. He continues that these were likely made for the Dutch factory in Peking, and afterwards the Company brought some Chinese workmen to Europe, who produced in Amsterdam hilts of similar character fitted with blades made in Holland and in Solingen.

The Tonquinese hilts are made of black shakudo bronze, indeed an alloy used by Japanese artisans of sword furniture, and consisting of antimony, gold and copper in varying proportions. This and the general design fixed by the East India Co. therefore "...follow closely those usual in European made swords of the same period, but the decoration seems to have been left to the fancy of the native artists", however the entry seems to be describing Chinese type foliage.
Since other European sword hilts seem to have followed similar fashion known as 'Chinoserie' (=of Chinese style) in these times, and there are a number of hunting swords with similar shapes seen listed in "Catalog of European Court and Hunting Swords" (Bashford Dean, 1929), it seems that designs and motif of China and the Far East indeed were produced in Europe. In Dean, there are several of these type hunting swords listed as French, and of 'Peking' type work using shakudo.

It would seem that the very stylish green man themed hunting sword is indeed a European sword.
The silver hilted sword said from Vietnam seems plausible as the French had a profound presence there though primarily trade in 18th century, developing into French Indo China in the 19th. French swords strongly influenced the Vietnamese swords by the 19th century particularly with the 'kiem', and this hunting sword may have been a product for French market.

[kai]

Hello Dmitry,

there would be no battle.

Exactly my point. Even the most gaudy BB would still be a serviceable weapon. Even if this design was taking a full circle Dutch-Negara-Dutch (unlikely considering the time frame as already pointed out by Arjan), there is no hint that this hilt may have been crafted in SE Asia.

This hilt is pretty much for show only and, thus, most likely to be a European one-off. (European manufacture already suggested by the Dutch marks, anyway.)

Regards,
Kai

[Dmitry]

I wonder when the earliest documented hilts of this fashion appeared in SE Asia.

[Dmitry]

Found another quasi-European hunting sword. This one was formerly in the Claude Blair collection, and was attributed as Javanese. Judging by the yellowish tinge of the metal, it could be paktong.

[Tim Simmons]

Like this which I swapped some time ago.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4894

[Dmitry]

Tim, this is pretty interesting. Looks like in this thread we have both the European weapons produced in the SE Asian vernacular, and the SE Asian pieces produced to emulate European swords. Both sides of the coin, so to speak.

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting discussion and European made swords made in ethnographic fashion is a topic I'd like to see carried further.