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18th February 2014, 02:25 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
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Fav Medieval Sword
Hey guys I love the Middle Ages. What is everyones favorite type of medieval sword?
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19th February 2014, 05:31 PM
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#2 | |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
Posts: 142
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19th February 2014, 05:35 PM
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#3 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
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Here's the link regarding Dhu'l-Faqar. In this link, there is plenty of information regarding the Yemeni straight double-edged sword: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17804 |
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19th February 2014, 09:54 PM
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#4 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
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Quote:
the blade of Dhu'l-Faqar has great similarities with European swords with extremely wide blades from the 13th century in terms of geometry Thanks for posting jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 19th February 2014 at 10:10 PM. |
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19th February 2014, 11:11 PM
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#5 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
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Quote:
Thanks a lot for your post. Glad you liked the article. I just have this passion for those wide-bladed straight double-edged swords! Beautiful and imposing European sword indeed. Thanks for sharing the photos! Best regards, Ahmed Helal Hussein |
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19th February 2014, 11:17 PM
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
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Best regards, Ahmed Helal Hussein |
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20th February 2014, 07:56 AM
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
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yes I can agree with you, it is of course the question of who came first, the chicken or the egg? The first European swords with broad blades with parallel cutting edges date from the early 12th century. there are only very few early european examples that I know (the existence) of, 3-4 swords. see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13457 on the other hand there are eighth century examples sculptures from the Umayyad period both representations of islamic rulers holding swords, but the shape and width of the blade is difficult to determine. best, Jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 20th February 2014 at 08:20 AM. |
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20th February 2014, 11:47 AM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Actually, the broad-bladed Arab (Yemeni) swords became known in the Arabian Peninsula shortly after 570 CE; with the dimensions of these Arab swords getting larger and larger until 620 CE. The Arabs may have known these immoderate sized sword-blades from the Indian Sub-Continent, but they made their own finish to their Yemeni swords; like the way they grooved the blades, made grips and other parts of their hilts, etc. European sword-blades generally did not become immoderate in dimensions until after the First Crusade. The elite Turkish warriors; along with the Arabs and Kurds have been using these broad Yemeni swords (also called Mashrafi swords) for many centuries before the Crusaders came into contact with them in the Middle East (during the Crusades). Another route of influence may have been via Muslim Spain; though I tend to believe that the Arab swords used by the Moors were usually of moderate dimensions. One route of influence that I would not doubt would be the Byzantine Empire. Troops from many ethnic groups fighting for this empire have come to contact the Muslim world for a long time. Though the Byzantines continued forging their long and slim swords until the 9th century CE (according to al-Kindi), al-Biruni said that in the 10th and 11th centuries CE they were using swords similar to the Ulber(h)t and Ingelrii swords forged in Western Europe. I would add to that that constant warfare with the Muslims in the 10th and 11th centuries must have taught the Byzantines to forge swords of immoderate dimensions; similar to those Yemeni swords used by their Muslim enemies; even though the Byzantines still preferred "German Steel" over Crucible (Indian) steel, for making their blades. I'd like to know your opinion, Jasper. Best regards, Ahmed Helal Hussein |
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20th February 2014, 01:05 PM
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#9 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
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salaams Ahmed,
I do not know if my opinion can add something to this discussion I'm more at home in medieval european swords from 1100 onwards. this is a bit too early for me. but I think the early islamische swords are that interesting that I'm going to delve into it some more. however I do think it is impossible to say who influenced who. fe. There is a 11th century Viking sword found in Bulgaria at a Byzantine battle site with a characteristic viking pommel Petersen type H and with a Byzantine guard. In Romania a sword has been found with Ulfberth inlay, and rivetted guard and pommel, a typical Byzantine sword hilt construction. on early Byzantine sculptures Spanish swords hilt form can be seen , etc the broad wide blade with multiple fullers can be an early (9thC) Byzantine development. who influenced who, I really don't know best, Jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 21st February 2014 at 08:55 AM. |
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21st February 2014, 04:58 AM
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#10 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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THE SWORD OF SUTTON HOO, MY FAV SWORD AND THE HELMET THAT WAS FOUND WITH IT MY FAV HELM.
 7th CENTURY AD. A FEW PICTURES AND A LINK TO THE BRITISH MUSEUM. THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON LINE FOR THOSE INTERESTED. THE DATA ON THIS SWORD AND OTHER ARTEFACTS SHOWS THAT THE SKILLS TO MAKE THIESE ITEMS WAS WELL DEVELOPED BY THE 7 CENTURY IN THE REGION AND LIKELY GOES BACK A LOT FARTHER.. http://finds.org.uk/staffshoardsympo...ers/kevinleahy Last edited by VANDOO; 21st February 2014 at 08:26 PM. |
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21st February 2014, 09:47 AM
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#11 | |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Regarding Byzantine swords, until the late 9th century CE, their blades were usually forged from soft iron that was case-hardened. At that time, and centuries before that, the Byzantines showed their admiration of pattern-welded blades; although they did not trust most of these blades. For the Byzantines, the solution came when Ulfber(h)t blades that were made of homogenous non-crucible steel. These blades had great acceptance in the Byzantine Empire. After their sword-blades were long and slender and made of case-hardened wrought iron and were used mainly for thrusting, the Byzantines switched to the Ulfber(h)t and later Ingelrii sword-blades that were usually used for cutting. Now then, from where did I obtain this information? The answer: From the compositions of al-Kindi, and al-Biruni; the former writing in the 9th century CE, while the latter writing in the late 10th and early 11th centuries CE. Therefore, I agree with all what you said; except with what you said regarding the wide-bladed multi-fullered swords were of 9th century Byzantine influence. Actually, the Yemenis knew these swords since the 6th century CE. If the Europeans did not know this from their own pattern-welded swords that date to the Migration Period (400-700 CE), then they've learned it from the Muslims, who were using Yemeni swords, during the Crusades. If not from the Muslims, then the Europeans learned this from the Byzantines, who in turn learned it from the Muslims. Although the Merovingians and other Germanics forged pattern-welded swords with several fullers, I do not know why, when the Ulfber(h)t and Ingelrii swords were forged, the Europeans, for several centuries, forged their blades with a single wide fuller on each face of their blades...even though they returned to the multi-fullering in the late Middle Ages. Thought to share this with you! Best regards, Ahmed Helal Hussein |
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21st February 2014, 05:12 PM
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,182
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