mysterious creature

mahratt · 9th November 2021, 12:48 PM

Hello! What kind of creature do you think is depicted on the knuckle guard of this Khanjarli?

kai · 9th November 2021, 06:48 PM

Very nice piece, Dmitry!

It's a humanized fat-tailed gecko, I'm sure...

Any chance it might be a composite of several features?

Regards,
Kai

Peter Andeweg · 9th November 2021, 10:15 PM

It could be Matsya, a reincarnation of the goddess Vishnu who saved the world from flood. I would date it early to mid 18th century. Nice piece!

ariel · 10th November 2021, 02:13 AM

Vishnu was a god: male.
Matsya by definition is a "fish". The creature does not look like one.

Richard G · 10th November 2021, 04:17 PM

Scorpion?

Sajen · 10th November 2021, 04:56 PM

Ask Erich von Däniken!

Ian · 11th November 2021, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Vishnu was a god: male.
Matsya by definition is a "fish". The creature does not look like one.

Vishnu does have a (transgender?) female avatar, Mohini, who is a seductress. He/she seduces Shiva in an attempt to make the latter more worldly. They may have had a son, Ayyappa. All this is very confusing because Mohini did not have a uterus and may have given birth from her thigh. Long story short, there are representations of Vishnu/Mohini that are female.

mahratt · 11th November 2021, 09:40 AM

Many thanks to everyone for their opinions.

ariel · 11th November 2021, 10:25 AM

I am with Sajen,
Looks like something from Area 51.

Kmaddock · 11th November 2021, 03:09 PM

If I use my imagination I can see a man with a V neck cloak with hands clasped in front praying?

no legs like a Casper the ghost character

Regards

Ken
PS a very nice piece indeed.

Interested Party · 11th November 2021, 04:41 PM

Am I being simple or could a level of meaning be the deification of the chilanam itself? The silhouette is an uncanny resemblance.

ariel · 13th November 2021, 04:57 AM

Apparently, this Khanjarli currently belongs to Mahratt. True?

It was first shown in the Russian book “ Mortal Beauty”( State Museum of the Orient, 2015, item # 84).
Museum items were shown separately, so it seems that this Khanjarli used to belong to one of the two private collectors, Messr. Popov and Kormshchikov, who provided items from their collections for the exhibition.

Seems to me the previous owner might possess important information about the mysterious figure.

mariusgmioc · 13th November 2021, 08:38 AM

I am a little late but I have no doubts that it is Matsya, the first avatar of Visnu.

If you examine the carving carefully you may notice it has four arms. Two lowered and two raised above the head. Very similar to the figure from another Khanjarli with the ten avatars of Vishnu.

I attach some illustrations for reference.

ariel · 13th November 2021, 10:25 AM

Marius,
Very convincing.
Excellent detective work!

Sajen · 13th November 2021, 01:40 PM

Hi Marius,

Great identification!

Regards,
Detlef

mahratt · 13th November 2021, 05:05 PM

Thank you very much, Marius!

A very detailed and undoubtedly correct explanation.

9th November 2021, 12:48 PM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	mysterious creature Hello! What kind of creature do you think is depicted on the knuckle guard of this Khanjarli? Attached Images

11th November 2021, 03:09 PM	#10
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	If I use my imagination I can see a man with a V neck cloak with hands clasped in front praying? no legs like a Casper the ghost character Regards Ken PS a very nice piece indeed. Attached Images

13th November 2021, 08:38 AM	#13
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I am a little late but I have no doubts that it is Matsya, the first avatar of Visnu. If you examine the carving carefully you may notice it has four arms. Two lowered and two raised above the head. Very similar to the figure from another Khanjarli with the ten avatars of Vishnu. I attach some illustrations for reference. Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 13th November 2021 at 08:49 AM.

9th November 2021, 06:48 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Very nice piece, Dmitry! It's a humanized fat-tailed gecko, I'm sure... Any chance it might be a composite of several features? Regards, Kai

9th November 2021, 10:15 PM	#3
Peter Andeweg Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Vlissingen, Netherlands Posts: 71	It could be Matsya, a reincarnation of the goddess Vishnu who saved the world from flood. I would date it early to mid 18th century. Nice piece!

10th November 2021, 02:13 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Vishnu was a god: male. Matsya by definition is a "fish". The creature does not look like one.

10th November 2021, 04:17 PM	#5
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	Scorpion?

10th November 2021, 04:56 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Ask Erich von Däniken!

11th November 2021, 09:40 AM	#8
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Many thanks to everyone for their opinions.

11th November 2021, 10:25 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am with Sajen, Looks like something from Area 51.

11th November 2021, 04:41 PM	#11
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 476	Am I being simple or could a level of meaning be the deification of the chilanam itself? The silhouette is an uncanny resemblance.

13th November 2021, 04:57 AM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Apparently, this Khanjarli currently belongs to Mahratt. True? It was first shown in the Russian book “ Mortal Beauty”( State Museum of the Orient, 2015, item # 84). Museum items were shown separately, so it seems that this Khanjarli used to belong to one of the two private collectors, Messr. Popov and Kormshchikov, who provided items from their collections for the exhibition. Seems to me the previous owner might possess important information about the mysterious figure.

13th November 2021, 10:25 AM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Marius, Very convincing. Excellent detective work!

13th November 2021, 01:40 PM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hi Marius, Great identification! Regards, Detlef

13th November 2021, 05:05 PM	#16
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Thank you very much, Marius! A very detailed and undoubtedly correct explanation.