Hello to you all! (New Member w/sword)

[medar1]

Hello to you all and I want to first thank you again for allowing me to be added to your fine community! I have, recently, been investigating a mystery that has taken me back through time to uncover as much as I can about a sword that is now in my families possession. It was recommended that I check here next, so here we go!

The Story (before another webpage put me on the right track):
My Grandfather received this sword from a Japanese officer during WW2 that he saved. The story goes that after saving the life of said officer, the officer gifted this sword to him as thanks stating it was in his family for "generations", passed from "hand to hand of each military son for generations", and was "ancient".

Since then:
I have discovered (since the story) that the sword is "blade" is VOC (pictures included). Here is a link to the conversation I have had with some great members at another site: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewt...p?f=15&t=18647

What I am curious about is if any member here has any further information they may be able to shed light on for me. I have exhausted every resource that I can think of in terms of museums, colleges, VOC ship manifests (thank you University of Copenhagen) and the like and the consensus seems to be:

1) Sword combination is rare
2) Nobody has seen that combination before on any VOC weapon (in terms of culture clash).

Again, I thank you for your time and consideration in any insight you may be able to give me into this weapon as I am enjoying this hunt for historical mystery.

Okay, let's get right to it and show you guys the pictures!

[David]

Welcome to the forums Medar. I think you might want to post all those detail shots here as well. It would certainly help the discussion along.

[Battara]

Although not my area, I do know that sometimes the Japanese soldiers had field swords made for them in other countries like Indonesia (where VOC comes from), the Philippines, Korea, Manchuria, etc.

Others can tell you more.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Medar, and welcome to our forum!
While the participants on the other forum seem reasonably knowledgeable, I very much disagree with some of the rather blunt responses rather than looking into plausible scenarios for this absolutely fascinating hybrid.

It is important to note that the VOC (Dutch East India Co.) in addition to their presence throughout Indonesia and other Asian locations, had a long standing presence in degree in Japan. While quite limited, they maintained factories at various locations, it seems usually in islands off the mainland. During this time the chief factors of the VOC were required to pay periodic visits to Edo, the seat of the Tokugawa Shogunate, as well as pay tribute. The VOC was allowed to remain in these restricted Japanese locations even during the closure of Japan to the West.

This VOC blade appears to be correctly inscribed with the company logo and the year date 1756. In about the mid 18th century it seems the company consistently had blades marked in this manner, and the 'A' is has been mentioned for Amsterdam, the primary city of the seven key chambers of the VOC in the Netherlands. These blades seem to have typically been produced in Solingen for the Dutch.

The mounts of this katana seem well done, not in true nihonto fashion, but extremely nicely represented. In the time that the Dutch occupied these Japanese locations, in this case post 1756 through the 1796 year the VOC ended, we know that diplomatic interaction existed between these powers in this arrangement. It is quite common in these circumstances to see various forms of hybridization with weapons, whether as diplomatic gifts or with individuals combining styles and fashions in a sense of novelty or exotica. This sort of hybridization was common in India during the British Raj, with Indian hilts carrying British blades and vice versa.

An individual of the VOC may have had his blade mounted in a representation of an authentic Japanese katana in one of the other factory locations in the Indonesian archipelago and worn it in his time when returning there. In some sort of diplomatic gesture or interaction he may well have presented it to a Japanese individual, and that person may well have kept it through generations.

Japanese officers of course are known to have carried their heirloom swords to campaigns in WWII, and while quite unusual, this anomaly may well have been carried accordingly.

We know that in Sri Lanka, many 'kastane' swords were mounted with VOC blades, and these blades occur in other similar circumstances throughout Indonesia and Malaysia, however..this is absolutely the first instance of a Japanese type katana with one I have ever seen . Fantastic!

Though it is doubtful that this unusual sword can be traced with any specific detail, however it seems quite possible that the scenario I suggest might account for its circumstances and an extremely rare and unique case as recounted by your grandfather.

As an alternate though more modern instance, it does seem possible (as Battara has suggested), that a Japanese officer might have had a katana fashioned in the Indonesian archipelago using a locally acquired VOC blade and by a local craftsman. This during the Japanese occupation there 1941-42. The only thing that might disagree here is the VOC inscription on the scabbard, which there would be no reason to duplicate.
In either case, it would explain this most unusual anomaly, and support your grandfathers wonderful legacy.

Thank you so much for sharing this with us

All the very best,
Jim



Attached illustration of OC compound at Hirado Island off west coast of Kyushu in 1669.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by medar1

.....

What I am curious about is if any member here has any further information they may be able to shed light on for me.....

Hullo medar1,
Welcome to the forum!
To complement what info you already have, please bear in mind:

- Okinawa of today was previously known as Ryukyu and was different from the rest of Japan because of its remoteness. It was independent until the beginning of the 17thC, when Occidentals started coming into the area. Using weaponry from them, Kyushu conquered Ryukyu in next-to-no-time. Ryukyu then remained under Kyushu as a semi-independent state until the Meiji Restoration, when it was absorbed into the rest of Japan.
- Until Perry's Gunboat Diplomacy, the Dutch were the only Occidentals allowed to trade in Japan after the Christian Rebellion.
- Your blade looks like a typical trade blade.
- The dress on your blade looks more Japanese than Nusantara.

I hope this will help you to gain the info/understanding to form your own conclusions to your satisfaction.

Best,

[Jim McDougall]

I just realized there were more pages to the thread linked from the other forum, and the information added pretty impressive and rendering my notes pretty redundant, particularly the data from Ian Bottomley.

Still this is truly a great mystery!!!

[Rich]

This is a good tale. I've not heard of VOC swords previously and I've been into
Nihonto for about 40 years now. Neat to see and hear the story of something
new. Any more info about this sword appreciated. Is it signed, marked, anything to identify it.
How about some close up pics of the hamon and boshi
for those of us who drool over cool Nihonto (not literally of course - it would
stain the blade :-)

Rich S

The Japanese Sword Index
http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm

[medar1]

Here are some other pictures guys. And thank you again (so very much) for your time and consideration in this mystery. This has been enjoyable but finding information on the VOC blades seems hard to come by.

[medar1]

More pictures

[David]

Originally Posted by Rich

How about some close up pics of the hamon and boshi
for those of us who drool over cool Nihonto (not literally of course - it would
stain the blade :-)

Rich, i don't think you are going to find a hamon or boshi on this blade as the blade itself seems to be a European VOC trade blade placed in Japanese dress.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by David

Rich, i don't think you are going to find a hamon or boshi on this blade as the blade itself seems to be a European VOC trade blade placed in Japanese dress.

yes, for sure the owner should NOT polish the blade, or remove the patina, there will be no hamon on a european VOC blade as they do/did not differentially temper these mono steel blades and it would lose not only value but it's soul. oil it and treat it with the respect due it's age.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

yes, for sure the owner should NOT polish the blade, or remove the patina, there will be no hamon on a european VOC blade as they do/did not differentially temper these mono steel blades and it would lose not only value but it's soul. oil it and treat it with the respect due it's age.

Absolutely perfectly said Kronckew!!!! Someone who truly appreciates what these old weapons are...they are the sentinels of history, and their patination and age are well earned and deserve proper respect. The ONLY exception is when the weapon is compromised by active rust or corrosion and utmost restraint must be employed to remedy that situation.

There are any number of possibilities for this VOC blade being in these interesting mounts, but it is certain this is a proper VOC blade, typically from the hangers they were in originally in the 18th century. As we have noted, these mounts were clearly not executed in proper nihonto standards so probably the work of an artisan in the Dutch East Indies or environs where these VOC blades were available . The provenance from a Japanese officer as a heirloom blade suggests early combining of these components and in Japanese context of course, so the scenario for VOC occupied Japan seems likely.

I cannot see why the scabbard would have Dutch East India company inscription otherwise, and it would be interesting to know exactly how this inscription reads.

I had minimized some of the entries on the linked forum in my first post because I had failed to read the following pages, and the subsequent entries were actually quite informative and well placed.

I am glad that Rich came in on this as he is undoubtedly the best informed authority on Japanese swords I have known of, and in my opinion the 'go to' guy for anything related to them.

Medar, actually we have a thread running on this forum presently which specifically addresses VOC blades (in fact that is the title of the thread). You may find it interesting to read through that to discover more of the history surrounding your blade.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I cannot see why the scabbard would have Dutch East India company inscription otherwise, and it would be interesting to know exactly how this inscription reads.

I'm i missing a photo here Jim. I don't see any inscription on the scabbard.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

I'm i missing a photo here Jim. I don't see any inscription on the scabbard.

You're right David, my bad!! I did not proof read the text of the thread linked from the other forum. The poster there noted elaborately the VOC stood for Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie, and in his enthusiasm claimed it was inscribed on the SCABBARD.....obviously he meant the blade and what the 'VOC' meant.
That makes more sense and I should have caught it

It returns to the case of this Dutch trade blade ending up in what appears to be a representation of a Japanese katana or more properly perhaps, wakizashi.

[asomotif]

Welcome Medar.

What a wonderfull sword and what a perfect timing with the other thread about VOC blades.

The blade looks good and genuine to me.
The whole ensemble with fittings and scabbard also looks genuine in my eyes. Problem is that I am a dummy on japanese swords.

Is there someone who can shine a light on the style and age of the japanese hilt and scabbard ???

Best regards,
Willem

[medar1]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Welcome Medar.


Is there someone who can shine a light on the style and age of the japanese hilt and scabbard ???

Best regards,
Willem

That would really help me a lot so yes, please, if anyone has any knowledge of this I would appreciate it greatly.

M

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please take a look at ~ http://www.nippon.com/en/features/c00105/

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Welcome Medar.

What a wonderfull sword and what a perfect timing with the other thread about VOC blades.

The blade looks good and genuine to me.
The whole ensemble with fittings and scabbard also looks genuine in my eyes. Problem is that I am a dummy on japanese swords.

Is there someone who can shine a light on the style and age of the japanese hilt and scabbard ???

Best regards,
Willem

Willem, it seems we have determined that this old VOC blade has apparently been remounted into Japanese style mounts, but those who have knowledge in true nihonto (traditional Japanese) swords have not ventured further thoughts.
While certainly outside my field, it seems that this old blade may have been placed in gunto (post Samurai) style mounts, quite possibly in the Meiji period (1868-1912).
During this time there was considerable proscription of the traditional Japanese swords, and profound movement toward 'westernization' , adopting European styling and fashion militarily.
Clearly these mounts do not correspond to the well known nihonto style and instead of the 'tsukaito' (silk wrap braid) this grip appears to be some type of covering wire wrapped, more in accord with western officers swords. The scabbard sparsely decorated and sturdy like military types. The tsuba guard still follows Japanese tradition.

I am inclined to believe that this blade was likely a heirloom in this Japanese family, as discussed, and the officer of WWII still had the gunto sword which was probably mounted for an ancestor during the Meiji period. During the Showa period (1926-1989) and prior to WWII, Japanese officers were having many 'shin gunto' swords fashioned using old heirloom blades, and while many followed nihonto tradition in degree, many were simply produced and often with cast metal mounts etc.
I would imagine this officer was permitted the carrying of his family heirloom in its present mounts in respect for his family tradition.

[mross]

The fittings do not look Japanese to me. They look cast.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mross

The fittings do not look Japanese to me. They look cast.

As we were noting, many 'shin gunto' swords produced during the Showa period and before for military officers were indeed cast. As with many heirloom blades in ethnographic settings, these are often refurbished in new mounts as they are passed down.