What is this small sword????????

Naga Sasra · 1st October 2009, 06:03 PM

Someone suggested it was from Thailand, Burma or ??, please help me identify this one. Also forgive me if the writing is upside down.

It is 27 5/8" long or 70 cm and look too good to me to be of the tourist kind.

Thank you in advance.

Henk · 1st October 2009, 06:50 PM

Looks like a european court sabre. Maybe it was made as a result of those influences?

Atlantia · 1st October 2009, 06:55 PM

The three headed elephant is 'Airavata' and is associated with (the mount of) Lord Indra.
But the form that it appears on your sword, it looks like the depiction on the flag of Laos.
I'd say its following the european small sword (court sword probobly in this case) influence but definately not European.
Laos, Thailand.. I wouldn't think India as it just doesn't 'feel' Indian.
Look at the architectural pommel and the hanging 'bells' looks like SEA work.

Mark · 1st October 2009, 06:59 PM

Most likely Lao (based on a European style, of course). The trhree-headed elephant is a Laotian royal symbol, and on the Laotian Royal flag.

Atlantia · 1st October 2009, 07:02 PM

Just wanted to add, I think its very nice! Would look good in my own collection

Norman McCormick · 1st October 2009, 07:26 PM

Hi,
This is almost certainly a Court Sword in the European style with decoration in regional taste, which region I don't know. There is no reason to assume that this sword was locally made it may well have been made by one of many European cutlers to local specifications. Wilkinson in the U.K. for example made many sword patterns for foreign governments and individuals e.g. Ethiopia.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Upon reflection, Siam or Burma would seem the most likely.

Naga Sasra · 1st October 2009, 09:11 PM

Thank you so very much to Henk, Atlantia, Mark and Norman for the information, I certainly agree with the suggestion it is a European Style Court sword and SEA, the three headed elephant points to Laos (thanks for the flag photo)
I don't know how long Laos have been using the motiv in their flag or as a national emblem. The reason I mention this is to try to establish an age to the sword.
If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age.
Again,
Thank you

Nathaniel · 2nd October 2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

The three headed elephant is 'Airavata' and is associated with (the mount of) Lord Indra.
But the form that it appears on your sword, it looks like the depiction on the flag of Laos.
I'd say its following the european small sword (court sword probobly in this case) influence but definately not European.
Laos, Thailand.. I wouldn't think India as it just doesn't 'feel' Indian.
Look at the architectural pommel and the hanging 'bells' looks like SEA work.

There is also a three headed elephant in Thailand:
http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/...lephant?blog=5

Nathaniel · 2nd October 2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

Thank you so very much to Henk, Atlantia, Mark and Norman for the information, I certainly agree with the suggestion it is a European Style Court sword and SEA, the three headed elephant points to Laos (thanks for the flag photo)
I don't know how long Laos have been using the motiv in their flag or as a national emblem. The reason I mention this is to try to establish an age to the sword.
If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age.
Again,
Thank you

Well...first the inscription is upside down:

Naga Sasra · 2nd October 2009, 02:46 AM

I am sorry the photo was upside down, I will try again

Nathaniel · 2nd October 2009, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age.
Again,
Thank you

It's written in the Thai Language.

ห้างยอนแซมซั่นแิอนซัน = Yon Samson and Son(s) Department Store

ห้าง = department store

ยอนแซมซั่น = Yon (sp?) Samson

แิอนซัน = and Son(s)

Naga Sasra · 2nd October 2009, 03:36 AM

Thank you very much Nathaniel.
This being written in the Thai language would indicate it may be a Thai court sword, unless they use the same written language in Laos. Excuse my ignorance in these matters.

I did a quick search on google to no avail, have you or do you know of this store in Thailand, is it still existing or closed down many years ago.
Any help you or other members may be able to provide will be highly appreciated.
Thank you,
Erik

Nathaniel · 2nd October 2009, 03:55 AM

Here is a comparison in between the Thai & Lao languages.

http://www.thailao.net/both_languages.htm

Similar, yet different.

My Thai friend said they have never heard of this department store in their 30 years living there...

Nathaniel · 2nd October 2009, 02:59 PM

Of course this sword would obviously be older than 30 years...so your right in that it could have closed down years ago. The prominence of European style swords in the Thai court during the reign of King Rama V which was during the late 1868-1910. Perhaps the inscription is who this sword was presented to?

PUFF · 27th November 2009, 02:35 PM

The sword is part of Thai government official dress code during the reign of King Rama V.

The acid-etched inscription is "John Samson and son limited" which is a branch of british "Messr. Sam & Sampson & Son", an elegant dress shoes leatherware and saddle tailer on Bond street, London.

The shop first open in Bangkok was in 1898 by Frederick Sampson. Their business was good until at least 1926.

PUFF · 27th November 2009, 02:51 PM

The three-heads elephant is a part of Siam's coat of arm as you may notice here

The elephant symbol was also used as one of the national emblem during the reign of king Rama IV-VI
This is an example of symbol on 1 baht Thai coin

1st October 2009, 06:03 PM	#1
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	What is this small sword???????? Someone suggested it was from Thailand, Burma or ??, please help me identify this one. Also forgive me if the writing is upside down. It is 27 5/8" long or 70 cm and look too good to me to be of the tourist kind. Thank you in advance. Attached Images

1st October 2009, 06:59 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Most likely Lao (based on a European style, of course). The trhree-headed elephant is a Laotian royal symbol, and on the Laotian Royal flag. Attached Images

1st October 2009, 07:26 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi, This is almost certainly a Court Sword in the European style with decoration in regional taste, which region I don't know. There is no reason to assume that this sword was locally made it may well have been made by one of many European cutlers to local specifications. Wilkinson in the U.K. for example made many sword patterns for foreign governments and individuals e.g. Ethiopia. Regards, Norman. P.S. Upon reflection, Siam or Burma would seem the most likely. Last edited by Norman McCormick; 1st October 2009 at 08:55 PM.

2nd October 2009, 02:46 AM	#10
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I am sorry the photo was upside down, I will try again Attached Images

1st October 2009, 06:50 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Looks like a european court sabre. Maybe it was made as a result of those influences?

1st October 2009, 06:55 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	The three headed elephant is 'Airavata' and is associated with (the mount of) Lord Indra. But the form that it appears on your sword, it looks like the depiction on the flag of Laos. I'd say its following the european small sword (court sword probobly in this case) influence but definately not European. Laos, Thailand.. I wouldn't think India as it just doesn't 'feel' Indian. Look at the architectural pommel and the hanging 'bells' looks like SEA work.

1st October 2009, 07:02 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Just wanted to add, I think its very nice! Would look good in my own collection

1st October 2009, 09:11 PM	#7
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Thank you so very much to Henk, Atlantia, Mark and Norman for the information, I certainly agree with the suggestion it is a European Style Court sword and SEA, the three headed elephant points to Laos (thanks for the flag photo) I don't know how long Laos have been using the motiv in their flag or as a national emblem. The reason I mention this is to try to establish an age to the sword. If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age. Again, Thank you

2nd October 2009, 03:36 AM	#12
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Thank you very much Nathaniel. This being written in the Thai language would indicate it may be a Thai court sword, unless they use the same written language in Laos. Excuse my ignorance in these matters. I did a quick search on google to no avail, have you or do you know of this store in Thailand, is it still existing or closed down many years ago. Any help you or other members may be able to provide will be highly appreciated. Thank you, Erik

2nd October 2009, 03:55 AM	#13
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Here is a comparison in between the Thai & Lao languages. http://www.thailao.net/both_languages.htm Similar, yet different. My Thai friend said they have never heard of this department store in their 30 years living there...

2nd October 2009, 02:59 PM	#14
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Of course this sword would obviously be older than 30 years...so your right in that it could have closed down years ago. The prominence of European style swords in the Thai court during the reign of King Rama V which was during the late 1868-1910. Perhaps the inscription is who this sword was presented to?

27th November 2009, 02:35 PM	#15
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	The sword is part of Thai government official dress code during the reign of King Rama V. The acid-etched inscription is "John Samson and son limited" which is a branch of british "Messr. Sam & Sampson & Son", an elegant dress shoes leatherware and saddle tailer on Bond street, London. The shop first open in Bangkok was in 1898 by Frederick Sampson. Their business was good until at least 1926.

27th November 2009, 02:51 PM	#16
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	The three-heads elephant is a part of Siam's coat of arm as you may notice here The elephant symbol was also used as one of the national emblem during the reign of king Rama IV-VI This is an example of symbol on 1 baht Thai coin