Spanish pistol, just to show

JamesKelly · 19th October 2013, 02:00 AM

Couple years ago I just absolutely had to have a miquelet gun of some sort, and ended up with this Spanish pistol. The mark on the 7-1/8" (181mm) .70 caliber (17.8mm) barrel appears to be a crown over DOM, INGO, MAS. W. Keith Neal says Domingo Mas worked in Ripoll circa 1715, so I guess that's him. The wood is stained black. A screw is missing on the sideplate, I do not know what it was for. Most of the pictures are from the seller, as his are far superior to mine.

Fernando K · 19th October 2013, 02:45 AM

Hello:

MAS, Sunday - Catalan. Late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. Some sixty gunsmiths of this surname listed in Ripoll between the ages 17 and 19

Sources: José Miguel Echeverria. several works
Henry of Leguina. Historical swords. Carlos Swords
Eudal Graells. Les armes de foc de Ripoll
Antonio de Aldecoa. III Basque Anthropology week. Firearms collection.

In Ramiro Larranaga "Synthesis Basque historic armory", page 263

Dmitry · 19th October 2013, 03:41 AM

A lovely pistol, thanks for showing it. The hole is probably for a belt hook retaining screw.

Miqueleter · 19th October 2013, 05:08 AM

Dmitry et al,

I agree, that hole has something to do with a belt hook. Fernando K nailed the makers. Nice pistol at any rate, though that broken top jaw sort of spoils the overall condition. Still, very handsome pistol.

Marcus den toom · 19th October 2013, 11:42 AM

Der Neue Stockel, page 768 : Mas Domigo, Ripoll (E or Spain) ca 1715
The same mark (7870) as the one on your pistol is stated next to this name.

Ripoll is a important passage way trough the Pyrenees mountains btw

fernando · 19th October 2013, 07:00 PM

Amazing the quantity of bel hooks that were removed from the weapons... surely because those were not suspended in such manner and their presence was an impedement for the smooth gun keeping.
There was a time when these hooks were not for belt hanging but for fixing the pistol inside the (horse) holster, to avoid falling. Just learnt this the other day.

Dmitry · 20th October 2013, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miqueleter

Dmitry et al,

I agree, that hole has something to do with a belt hook. Fernando K nailed the makers. Nice pistol at any rate, though that broken top jaw sort of spoils the overall condition. Still, very handsome pistol.

Good call on the broken top jaw. I didn't notice that.
Here's another DOmingo Mas pistol, very similar to the topic starters. Still has the hook.
http://americanpowderhorns.com/?p=369

JamesKelly · 20th October 2013, 09:19 PM

Thank you all for your replies.

I was not happy to hear the comment about broken top jaw, I had not noticed that. Thought it was just made that way. After all, wrought iron is ductile & should not just break off like that. Sometimes I forget my metallurgy after working in it a half century. So, I scrubbed off the gunk of ages using Automatic Transmission Fluid (a great cleaner) and bronze wool. Yep, it just fractured. I do not know why, perhaps a forging defect which just grew larger each time that very powerful mainspring slammed the flint into the steel. One can see the fracture at the end of that top jaw. At the very back end the metal is also smeared, which would have happened during continued use after the thing broke. Oh, well.
I looked closely at the iron ramrod. At first I thought it had a scarf weld of a piece of steel to the iron body. But there is no reason to have any steel-iron mix on this ramrod. Again scrubbed a little with ATF & bronze. The various lines that show might be defects in the iron from which this rod was forged. If a similar defect existed in the top jaw that might have been a reason for it breaking after repeated strikes. This pistol looks to have been fired a lot, as the steel is heavily worn. This lock has no provision for unscrewing & replacing the steel.
Of course, this is just speculation. but that is what one often does in a metallurgical failure analysis when one cannot get all the necessary information.(whoops! Did I do such an analysis for you on a high temperature fixture? We can chat off-line!)
Pleased to learn that it is in Heer's Neue Stockel. I have only the MCMXLIII paperback HAANDSKYDEVAABENS BEDØMMELSE II, JOHAN F. STØCKEL. Looked through each and every illustration last night as the Tigers (our Detroit baseball team) lost to Boston. No Domingo Mas. If I can find Neue Stockel in the Detroit library I shall photograph page 768
Dmitry, thanks for the post to a similar pistol by Domingo Mas. It even has about the same engraving under the main spring.

Dmitry · 21st October 2013, 05:28 PM

James, the broken top jaw can be restored to its original configuration. Any qualified gunsmith, who restores old guns can do it. It may have broken from dry-firing the gun without the flint, when the top jaw hit the frizzen, or, like you say, from repeated use. Who knows...

Miqueleter · 22nd October 2013, 05:18 AM

Dmitry and James,

Perhaps item number FC159 from https://www.blackleyandson.com/ would be a good start at replacing that top jaw. FC159 sure looks like the broken one and measures 1.437". Just sayin'

Marcus den toom · 24th October 2013, 10:43 AM

The page of der Neue stockel, (i don't own any rights on these pics)

JamesKelly · 25th October 2013, 11:10 PM

Thank you, Marcus!

Fernando K · 3rd November 2013, 03:50 PM

Hello:

A little late. The traditional method in miquelete, is that the upper jaw has an appendix, which is introduced into the body of the cat's foot or "trigger". Just at the gun D. But it is up to the forum, American Powder Horn, follow this method. Here should be examined whether the post is on the drill.

This method is very old, and it was still in the key (lock) to the "lace". See page 180/182 of LAVIN

Sorry for the translator

Affectionately. Fernando K

19th October 2013, 02:00 AM	#1
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Spanish pistol, just to show Couple years ago I just absolutely had to have a miquelet gun of some sort, and ended up with this Spanish pistol. The mark on the 7-1/8" (181mm) .70 caliber (17.8mm) barrel appears to be a crown over DOM, INGO, MAS. W. Keith Neal says Domingo Mas worked in Ripoll circa 1715, so I guess that's him. The wood is stained black. A screw is missing on the sideplate, I do not know what it was for. Most of the pictures are from the seller, as his are far superior to mine. Attached Images

20th October 2013, 09:19 PM	#8
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Thank you all for your replies. I was not happy to hear the comment about broken top jaw, I had not noticed that. Thought it was just made that way. After all, wrought iron is ductile & should not just break off like that. Sometimes I forget my metallurgy after working in it a half century. So, I scrubbed off the gunk of ages using Automatic Transmission Fluid (a great cleaner) and bronze wool. Yep, it just fractured. I do not know why, perhaps a forging defect which just grew larger each time that very powerful mainspring slammed the flint into the steel. One can see the fracture at the end of that top jaw. At the very back end the metal is also smeared, which would have happened during continued use after the thing broke. Oh, well. I looked closely at the iron ramrod. At first I thought it had a scarf weld of a piece of steel to the iron body. But there is no reason to have any steel-iron mix on this ramrod. Again scrubbed a little with ATF & bronze. The various lines that show might be defects in the iron from which this rod was forged. If a similar defect existed in the top jaw that might have been a reason for it breaking after repeated strikes. This pistol looks to have been fired a lot, as the steel is heavily worn. This lock has no provision for unscrewing & replacing the steel. Of course, this is just speculation. but that is what one often does in a metallurgical failure analysis when one cannot get all the necessary information.(whoops! Did I do such an analysis for you on a high temperature fixture? We can chat off-line!) Pleased to learn that it is in Heer's Neue Stockel. I have only the MCMXLIII paperback HAANDSKYDEVAABENS BEDØMMELSE II, JOHAN F. STØCKEL. Looked through each and every illustration last night as the Tigers (our Detroit baseball team) lost to Boston. No Domingo Mas. If I can find Neue Stockel in the Detroit library I shall photograph page 768 Dmitry, thanks for the post to a similar pistol by Domingo Mas. It even has about the same engraving under the main spring. Attached Images

19th October 2013, 02:45 AM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello: MAS, Sunday - Catalan. Late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. Some sixty gunsmiths of this surname listed in Ripoll between the ages 17 and 19 Sources: José Miguel Echeverria. several works Henry of Leguina. Historical swords. Carlos Swords Eudal Graells. Les armes de foc de Ripoll Antonio de Aldecoa. III Basque Anthropology week. Firearms collection. In Ramiro Larranaga "Synthesis Basque historic armory", page 263

19th October 2013, 03:41 AM	#3
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	A lovely pistol, thanks for showing it. The hole is probably for a belt hook retaining screw.

19th October 2013, 05:08 AM	#4
Miqueleter Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 39	Dmitry et al, I agree, that hole has something to do with a belt hook. Fernando K nailed the makers. Nice pistol at any rate, though that broken top jaw sort of spoils the overall condition. Still, very handsome pistol.

19th October 2013, 11:42 AM	#5
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Der Neue Stockel, page 768 : Mas Domigo, Ripoll (E or Spain) ca 1715 The same mark (7870) as the one on your pistol is stated next to this name. Ripoll is a important passage way trough the Pyrenees mountains btw

19th October 2013, 07:00 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Amazing the quantity of bel hooks that were removed from the weapons... surely because those were not suspended in such manner and their presence was an impedement for the smooth gun keeping. There was a time when these hooks were not for belt hanging but for fixing the pistol inside the (horse) holster, to avoid falling. Just learnt this the other day.

21st October 2013, 05:28 PM	#9
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	James, the broken top jaw can be restored to its original configuration. Any qualified gunsmith, who restores old guns can do it. It may have broken from dry-firing the gun without the flint, when the top jaw hit the frizzen, or, like you say, from repeated use. Who knows...

22nd October 2013, 05:18 AM	#10
Miqueleter Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 39	Dmitry and James, Perhaps item number FC159 from https://www.blackleyandson.com/ would be a good start at replacing that top jaw. FC159 sure looks like the broken one and measures 1.437". Just sayin'

24th October 2013, 10:43 AM	#11
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	The page of der Neue stockel, (i don't own any rights on these pics)

25th October 2013, 11:10 PM	#12
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Thank you, Marcus!

3rd November 2013, 03:50 PM	#13
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello: A little late. The traditional method in miquelete, is that the upper jaw has an appendix, which is introduced into the body of the cat's foot or "trigger". Just at the gun D. But it is up to the forum, American Powder Horn, follow this method. Here should be examined whether the post is on the drill. This method is very old, and it was still in the key (lock) to the "lace". See page 180/182 of LAVIN Sorry for the translator Affectionately. Fernando K