Jawa Demam?

David · 17th December 2006, 03:31 PM

This keris recently ended on eBay. I was intrigued by it's hilt, which to my eyes appears to be a more figurative representation of the Jawa Demam. I have never seen this form so humanized, though we do certainly see less abstracted forms, especially out of Sumatra. Paul de Souza comments on his website that while some have claimed the Jawa Demam form to be an abstracted Garuda, there is some evidence that it is the form of a man.
http://home.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/hilt.html
Is this hilt the proof?

On the other hand, i don't think this hilt is particularly old so it could be a more modern revisioning of supposed origin.

Rick · 17th December 2006, 04:32 PM

You want a human form ?
This hilt is from an old tombak dressed for the tourist market.

David · 17th December 2006, 04:47 PM

It's not so much that this is a human form Rick as much as it has all the same body positions of the Jawa Demam hilts. Unfortunately there weren't too many other views on the auction, but i think if you look you can see the "hump" that you find on the backs of many Jawa Demam. The arm positions seem similar and the figure is leaning forward as if doubling over. The example you present i wouldn't think of as a Jawa Demam.

Rick · 17th December 2006, 05:21 PM

Hmm, I see basic elements of the form in that hilt .
Drawn up knees; arm wrapped around the body ..

Alam Shah · 18th December 2006, 04:05 AM

How about this? Could it be considered Jawa Demam?

A more handsome-looking old man.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260

Rick · 18th December 2006, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

How about this? Could it be considered Jawa Demam?

A more handsome-looking old man.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260

I think the elements are there.
The arm or arms across the belly are (I believe) the key to this form.

David · 18th December 2006, 04:26 AM

Well, i wouldn't say definitely not.

But it does seem that the hilt i posted has a more direct connection to the hilts we know as Jawa Demam. But all these hilts could be various depictions of the same subject.

BluErf · 18th December 2006, 03:31 PM

Hmmm... the form just doesn't flow. It looks a bit too 'ethnographic'.

Rick · 18th December 2006, 03:53 PM

Which particular form that's been shown are you referring to Kai Wee ?

Also, now that we have seen a couple of 'possible' related Jawa Demam forms does anyone have an unabstract (to a degree) example of a Garuda hilt ?
If not then when and how does the Jawa Demam morph into the Garuda form ?

Marcokeris · 19th December 2006, 05:04 PM

Even if the base is curved, in my opinion David's hilt could be not from Sumatra but from Jawa.
The type seems to be rather recent and could be from Madura or near Tegal (model Wayang type).

17th December 2006, 03:31 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Jawa Demam? This keris recently ended on eBay. I was intrigued by it's hilt, which to my eyes appears to be a more figurative representation of the Jawa Demam. I have never seen this form so humanized, though we do certainly see less abstracted forms, especially out of Sumatra. Paul de Souza comments on his website that while some have claimed the Jawa Demam form to be an abstracted Garuda, there is some evidence that it is the form of a man. http://home.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/hilt.html Is this hilt the proof? On the other hand, i don't think this hilt is particularly old so it could be a more modern revisioning of supposed origin. Attached Images Last edited by David; 17th December 2006 at 04:25 PM.

17th December 2006, 04:32 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Really Human You want a human form ? This hilt is from an old tombak dressed for the tourist market. Attached Images

17th December 2006, 05:21 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Non Abstract Figure ? Hmm, I see basic elements of the form in that hilt . Drawn up knees; arm wrapped around the body ..

17th December 2006, 04:47 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	It's not so much that this is a human form Rick as much as it has all the same body positions of the Jawa Demam hilts. Unfortunately there weren't too many other views on the auction, but i think if you look you can see the "hump" that you find on the backs of many Jawa Demam. The arm positions seem similar and the figure is leaning forward as if doubling over. The example you present i wouldn't think of as a Jawa Demam.

18th December 2006, 04:05 AM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	How about this? Could it be considered Jawa Demam? A more handsome-looking old man. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260

18th December 2006, 04:26 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Well, i wouldn't say definitely not. But it does seem that the hilt i posted has a more direct connection to the hilts we know as Jawa Demam. But all these hilts could be various depictions of the same subject.

18th December 2006, 03:31 PM	#8
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hmmm... the form just doesn't flow. It looks a bit too 'ethnographic'.

18th December 2006, 03:53 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Which particular form that's been shown are you referring to Kai Wee ? Also, now that we have seen a couple of 'possible' related Jawa Demam forms does anyone have an unabstract (to a degree) example of a Garuda hilt ? If not then when and how does the Jawa Demam morph into the Garuda form ?

19th December 2006, 05:04 PM	#10
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Even if the base is curved, in my opinion David's hilt could be not from Sumatra but from Jawa. The type seems to be rather recent and could be from Madura or near Tegal (model Wayang type).