Small = Nice !

Freddy · 6th August 2007, 11:13 AM

I found this piece on the Bruges antique market yesterday. Couldn't resist buying it.

It's a very small African knife, complete with its sheath. The seller told me it came from Congo, but I'm not sure of this. Could also be West-Africa.

This piece has a length of 16,5 cm in its sheath. The blade itself measures 8,6 cm and is 2,1 cm wide.
What is interesting, I think, is the blade. The shaped reminds me of the blades from some pocket knives I have in my collection.
There's also no tang protruding from the top of the handle (as so often seen on African knives).
Could it be that a clever African found a good blade of a pocket knife and converted it to an African piece ?

Here are some pics

Freddy · 6th August 2007, 11:15 AM

Here's the piece compared to some of my European pocket knives

Tim Simmons · 6th August 2007, 11:19 AM

Universal function. nice with good scabbard

.

Bill M · 6th August 2007, 12:24 PM

Wonder if, with the phallic shaped scabbard, it could have been a circumcision knife? Could still have been made from a pocket knife.

katana · 6th August 2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Wonder if, with the phallic shaped scabbard, it could have been a circumcision knife? Could still have been made from a pocket knife.

Good point Bill, the scabbard is extremely well made ...which suggests the sheath is important in identifying it's function. Very interesting knife Freddy.

kronckew · 6th August 2007, 09:36 PM

if that is a circumcision knife, i'd be wondering what kind of leather the sheath was made of.

there was a documentary on last night about a celeb travelling along the equator in africa, he went to visit a group of circumciser shamans, they do about 300 boys roughly 13 yrs old in one ceremony twice a year, works out about one boy every 12 seconds. i am glad i was a baby when they did me in a hospital

.....they showed the circumciser's knife, it looked like a thin hand forged spearpoint blade about 6in. long, inch or so wide, no fullers or central rib, with a simple nondescript leather covered grip. just a cheap old rough knife with no carving at all. not to say there are not variations....

elevennevele · 7th August 2007, 05:24 AM

I'm starting to get dizzy...

I wonder if this is the usual case of treasuring something more with additional information, or has the item become something more than one bargained for. One question though... the scarab is clearly phallic, however why does the blade edge of this knife look battered/ragged in such a way if it was to perform circumcisions? I'm not sure if I would want to hear the testimonial of the recipient of this knife.

Ok, starting to get dizzy again...

Freddy · 7th August 2007, 07:53 PM

I don't know if it's a circumcision knife. The edge of the blade is too serrated and I don't think it's sharp enough to do the job.

On the other hand, Bill, you could be right as to the phallic shape of the hilt. In African art this is often used. Could have some symbolic meaning.

Flavio · 7th August 2007, 08:17 PM

From the pommel on the hilt seems to me Manding. Very nice!

Tim Simmons · 7th August 2007, 08:23 PM

I think you are right Flavio. Certainly that area.

Freddy · 7th August 2007, 08:59 PM

You could be right, Flavio. Also the leather loop at the back of the sheath reminds me of Manding knives.

But, if it's not a circumcision knife, why would anyone want such a small knife ? Perhaps a woman's knife ?

Ik know the women of the Mangbetu tribe have small daggers for daily use. They have the same shape as the daggers used by men, only the size is different (much smaller).

CourseEight · 8th August 2007, 11:31 PM

Hi --

I got this knife on ebay a bit ago, and it seems similar to yours in size and configuration. What with the leather tassles, from what I have seen elsewhere on the forum, mine certainly looks Manding. Also, it seems the tip of the scabbard is designed to hold the tassles, so maybe it isn't intentionally phallic?

Hope this is helpful...

--Radleigh

6th August 2007, 11:13 AM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Small = Nice ! I found this piece on the Bruges antique market yesterday. Couldn't resist buying it. It's a very small African knife, complete with its sheath. The seller told me it came from Congo, but I'm not sure of this. Could also be West-Africa. This piece has a length of 16,5 cm in its sheath. The blade itself measures 8,6 cm and is 2,1 cm wide. What is interesting, I think, is the blade. The shaped reminds me of the blades from some pocket knives I have in my collection. There's also no tang protruding from the top of the handle (as so often seen on African knives). Could it be that a clever African found a good blade of a pocket knife and converted it to an African piece ? Here are some pics

8th August 2007, 11:31 PM	#12
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	Similar Knife Hi -- I got this knife on ebay a bit ago, and it seems similar to yours in size and configuration. What with the leather tassles, from what I have seen elsewhere on the forum, mine certainly looks Manding. Also, it seems the tip of the scabbard is designed to hold the tassles, so maybe it isn't intentionally phallic? Hope this is helpful... --Radleigh Attached Images

6th August 2007, 11:15 AM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Here's the piece compared to some of my European pocket knives

6th August 2007, 11:19 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Universal function. nice with good scabbard .

6th August 2007, 12:24 PM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Wonder if, with the phallic shaped scabbard, it could have been a circumcision knife? Could still have been made from a pocket knife.

6th August 2007, 09:36 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	if that is a circumcision knife, i'd be wondering what kind of leather the sheath was made of. there was a documentary on last night about a celeb travelling along the equator in africa, he went to visit a group of circumciser shamans, they do about 300 boys roughly 13 yrs old in one ceremony twice a year, works out about one boy every 12 seconds. i am glad i was a baby when they did me in a hospital .....they showed the circumciser's knife, it looked like a thin hand forged spearpoint blade about 6in. long, inch or so wide, no fullers or central rib, with a simple nondescript leather covered grip. just a cheap old rough knife with no carving at all. not to say there are not variations....

7th August 2007, 05:24 AM	#7
elevennevele Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 11	I'm starting to get dizzy... I wonder if this is the usual case of treasuring something more with additional information, or has the item become something more than one bargained for. One question though... the scarab is clearly phallic, however why does the blade edge of this knife look battered/ragged in such a way if it was to perform circumcisions? I'm not sure if I would want to hear the testimonial of the recipient of this knife. Ok, starting to get dizzy again...

7th August 2007, 07:53 PM	#8
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't know if it's a circumcision knife. The edge of the blade is too serrated and I don't think it's sharp enough to do the job. On the other hand, Bill, you could be right as to the phallic shape of the hilt. In African art this is often used. Could have some symbolic meaning.

7th August 2007, 08:17 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	From the pommel on the hilt seems to me Manding. Very nice!

7th August 2007, 08:23 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I think you are right Flavio. Certainly that area.

7th August 2007, 08:59 PM	#11
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	You could be right, Flavio. Also the leather loop at the back of the sheath reminds me of Manding knives. But, if it's not a circumcision knife, why would anyone want such a small knife ? Perhaps a woman's knife ? Ik know the women of the Mangbetu tribe have small daggers for daily use. They have the same shape as the daggers used by men, only the size is different (much smaller).