In service 'acceptable' modifications to military Sabres.

[Atlantia]

I've often thought it interesting that some military sabres, particularly of the later 19thC seem to have 'field' modifications while others don't.

The first that springs to mind is edgeless sabres (of the cavalry stabbing variety) being sharpened.
Presumably if you are in a regiment that is issued with a 'point only' sabre then your entire training with that sword would avoid the need to slash with it?
Obviously this only relates to those swords made in the 'traditional' shape and not the very late ones with the double back spine that simply couldn't be sharpened.

Also, hilt blackening/painting. I've seen sabres where this is apparently a service life mod.
Wouldn't the painted ones stand out and get you reprimanded?
Was it just a 'field' mod?
Rust proofing?

Any others? Any thoughts?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I've often thought it interesting that some military sabres, particularly of the later 19thC seem to have 'field' modifications while others don't.

The first that springs to mind is edgeless sabres (of the cavalry stabbing variety) being sharpened.
Presumably if you are in a regiment that is issued with a 'point only' sabre then your entire training with that sword would avoid the need to slash with it?
Obviously this only relates to those swords made in the 'traditional' shape and not the very late ones with the double back spine that simply couldn't be sharpened.

Also, hilt blackening/painting. I've seen sabres where this is apparently a service life mod.
Wouldn't the painted ones stand out and get you reprimanded?
Was it just a 'field' mod?
Rust proofing?

Any others? Any thoughts?

Interesting subject Gene! and I cant believe no answers.
Which kind of sabres are you referring to, the M1908 or US M1914 Patton?
The British 1908 was used in WWI, often referred to as the 'Allenby sword' for the General in command in the Middle East.....the US M1914 Patton was never used in combat. I never heard of any modifications on these, which were mounted on the saddles, as were the M1899 and 1890 swords.

The swords before that were cut and thrust sabres in most cases, but Im not sure what field modifications you mean and when.....but I see what you mean by individuals altering weapons and what repurcussions might result.
The only double back spine swords I can think of were the 'dumbbell' cross section British infantry officers swords of 1895.

Since in most cases by later 19th c. swords were virtually obsolete in regulation military in US and European cases, and issue weapons to other ranks, it seems unlikely for modifications to have been done unless by order. For the most part, other ranks swords were seldom maintained, let alone modified, and training was only nominal in many cases in the US. In the American Civil War, there were few injuries inflicted by the usually dull swords, and those recorded were usually blunt force trauma rather than cuts.

In the case of painting/japanning, this would have most likely I think been the result of an order to have this done with weapons in an armoury or issued weapons in stores. Most other ranks would not have taken this kind of initiative. When Pershing rode into Mexico after Villa, most of the troopers threw thier swords into the desert as frustrating encumbrances.

Ive probably just asked more questions than giving any answers, but think its an interesting subject and would be good to discuss.

All the best,
Jim

[Richard]

As far as British swords are concerned, one of the most well known modifications is the conversion of the "hatchet" pointed blade of the P1796 heavy cavalry sword to a "spear" point since there is a contemporary account of this by Trooper James Smithies of the 1st Royal Dragoons speaking on the eve of Waterloo:

for the first time ever known in our army the cavalry were ordered to grind the backs of their swords as, so our Captain Clarke* said, we should have to use both sides. It was thought by the men that this order had been given because we had to contend with a large number of French Cuirassiers who had steel armour and through this we should have to cut.

* Captain Clarke of course went on to capture the Eagle of the veteran French 105 regiment of the line during the famous charge of the Union brigade.

Below is a sword regimentally marked to the 1st Royal Dragoons with that modification.

Ironically the French cuirassiers were also making exactly the same sort of field modification to their hatchet pointed An XIII swords, a modification officially adopted in 1816.

Richard

[kisak]

Regarding the blunt edges being sharpened, I've heard that at least in Sweden,a s swords saw less and less sue in the 19th century, military swords started being delivered and kept dull (cut down on both maintenance needs and accidents I guess) until such a time that they might be needed on the field. They would then have the edge ground on by the regimental armourer or such. Many (most I think) of the m/1893 trooper's sabres in the Swedish market today for example have very coarsely bevelled edges due to this. (I wonder if they were ground up for the feared war of Norwegian independence, WW1, or something else.)

[celtan]

I also know of curved cavalry swords "a la turca" having their points rounded, reportedly to avoid them getting snagged and lost, hooked in their last victim. In fact, I own a french M1822 with such modification, but it also has a parabollic blade. _Very curved _

M

Originally Posted by kisak

Regarding the blunt edges being sharpened, I've heard that at least in Sweden,a s swords saw less and less sue in the 19th century, military swords started being delivered and kept dull (cut down on both maintenance needs and accidents I guess) until such a time that they might be needed on the field. They would then have the edge ground on by the regimental armourer or such. Many (most I think) of the m/1893 trooper's sabres in the Swedish market today for example have very coarsely bevelled edges due to this. (I wonder if they were ground up for the feared war of Norwegian independence, WW1, or something else.)