A hunting knife for ID & comments

fernando · 13th January 2013, 06:42 PM

What do you guys think about this one ?
I will antecipate what the seller said, but am ready for your disagreements:
A hunting/defence knife, from Sicily, mid-end 18th century.
The one edged blade measures 26 cms. in length, 40 m/m in width and 7 m/m in thickness. Therefore a sturdy think; you may call it a weapon. Total length 38 cms.. The grip is made of slices of horn, i ignore from what animal.The wire filets, pommel and ferrule look like silver; for what i paid for this piece, they might as well be gold. The relief of the two guys on the ricasso are as deep as you can see. I am not sure what these two zoomorphic figure are; one looks like game, the other confuses me a bit ... a dog ?
I will anxiously wait for your diagnosis .

.

Atlantia · 13th January 2013, 07:09 PM

Italian, later 18th century probobly, early 19th century at the latest. Very nice catch Nando!
Much better than most I see.

For some reason best known to my computer I'm having trouble viewing entire posts at once today! I see the rest now!

If you indeed paid a 'gold' price for this dagger, then don't worry they are usually expensive and seldom this nice.
BTW, I think it's a lion and a stag.

Edit: Here's another described as 'Italian late 18thC'

Norman McCormick · 13th January 2013, 07:27 PM

Hi Fernando,
First instinct would make me say Hunting knife. The figures certainly suggest to me a dog with the other being quarry with swept back horns/antlers, Ibex? or might be stylized deer. Ibex hunting still popular on the Iberian peninsula and the dagger style again in keeping with Southern Europe. Doesn't look like a fighting knife more a rich mans hunting dagger. Nice piece

My Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 15th January 2013, 01:42 PM

Thank you for your input, guys.
I have just located a similar example, although not so refined and; a shallower relief and some blade wear. The origin and approx. date matches. I will try and chase the (Italian) owner, to check if he got further info since he posted his knife, back in 2006.

P.S.
Gene's posted example has a similar ricasso decoration style but the blade and grip are more dagger like, i would say.

,

fernando · 17th January 2013, 10:25 AM

I have emailed the guy and he was kind enough to answer promptly.
Nothing significant to add to the subject

Matus · 18th January 2013, 08:46 PM

Hi Fernando,

similar daggers are listed in the Baumann Collection catalog (Katalog zur Waffensammlung der Stiftung Baumann) on p.651/652 - labeled as Italian, 18th century.

If you don't have this book, just let me know and I can scan the relevant pages.

Greetings,
Matus

fernando · 19th January 2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matus

Hi Fernando,

similar daggers are listed in the Baumann Collection catalog (Katalog zur Waffensammlung der Stiftung Baumann) on p.651/652 - labeled as Italian, 18th century.

If you don't have this book, just let me know and I can scan the relevant pages.

Greetings,
Matus

Please do, Matus.
Thank you so much in advance

Matus · 20th January 2013, 03:37 PM

Hi Fernando,

here are the promised pages.

Cheers,
Matus

fernando · 21st January 2013, 01:03 PM

Very nice examples, Matus,
Thank you so much for that.

13th January 2013, 06:42 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A hunting knife for ID & comments What do you guys think about this one ? I will antecipate what the seller said, but am ready for your disagreements: A hunting/defence knife, from Sicily, mid-end 18th century. The one edged blade measures 26 cms. in length, 40 m/m in width and 7 m/m in thickness. Therefore a sturdy think; you may call it a weapon. Total length 38 cms.. The grip is made of slices of horn, i ignore from what animal.The wire filets, pommel and ferrule look like silver; for what i paid for this piece, they might as well be gold. The relief of the two guys on the ricasso are as deep as you can see. I am not sure what these two zoomorphic figure are; one looks like game, the other confuses me a bit ... a dog ? I will anxiously wait for your diagnosis . . Attached Images

13th January 2013, 07:09 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Italian, later 18th century probobly, early 19th century at the latest. Very nice catch Nando! Much better than most I see. For some reason best known to my computer I'm having trouble viewing entire posts at once today! I see the rest now! If you indeed paid a 'gold' price for this dagger, then don't worry they are usually expensive and seldom this nice. BTW, I think it's a lion and a stag. Edit: Here's another described as 'Italian late 18thC' Attached Images Last edited by Atlantia; 13th January 2013 at 07:32 PM.

15th January 2013, 01:42 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for your input, guys. I have just located a similar example, although not so refined and; a shallower relief and some blade wear. The origin and approx. date matches. I will try and chase the (Italian) owner, to check if he got further info since he posted his knife, back in 2006. P.S. Gene's posted example has a similar ricasso decoration style but the blade and grip are more dagger like, i would say. , Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 15th January 2013 at 02:18 PM.

20th January 2013, 03:37 PM	#8
Matus Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	Hi Fernando, here are the promised pages. Cheers, Matus Attached Images

13th January 2013, 07:27 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Fernando, First instinct would make me say Hunting knife. The figures certainly suggest to me a dog with the other being quarry with swept back horns/antlers, Ibex? or might be stylized deer. Ibex hunting still popular on the Iberian peninsula and the dagger style again in keeping with Southern Europe. Doesn't look like a fighting knife more a rich mans hunting dagger. Nice piece My Regards, Norman.

17th January 2013, 10:25 AM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I have emailed the guy and he was kind enough to answer promptly. Nothing significant to add to the subject

18th January 2013, 08:46 PM	#6
Matus Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	Hi Fernando, similar daggers are listed in the Baumann Collection catalog (Katalog zur Waffensammlung der Stiftung Baumann) on p.651/652 - labeled as Italian, 18th century. If you don't have this book, just let me know and I can scan the relevant pages. Greetings, Matus

21st January 2013, 01:03 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice examples, Matus, Thank you so much for that.