EBAY TWO SPEARS FORMOSA?

VANDOO · 25th July 2007, 03:48 PM

TWO SPEARS JUST ENDED ON EBAY #140139519680 AND # 140139519230 THEY WERE IDENTIFIED AS BEING FROM FIJI

I THINK THEY ARE FROM FORMOSA(TAIWAN) ABORIGINAL TRIBES SOUVINEERS OR CEREMONIAL

PERHAPS SOME OF OUR MORE KNOWLEGABLE MEMBERS CAN COMMENT.

Henk · 25th July 2007, 04:39 PM

I cann't help it and I hope for the buyer I'm completely wrong, but it looks so awful touristic to me. Sometimes you find those things in those fleemarketshops in a corner.

I really hope I'm completely wrong.

katana · 25th July 2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

I cann't help it and I hope for the buyer I'm completely wrong, but it looks so awful touristic to me. Sometimes you find those things in those fleemarketshops in a corner.

I really hope I'm completely wrong.

I saw these and have to agree, almost certainly tourist quality. There have been a number of so called African spears with very similar decoration and finish...but with leaf shaped spearheads ....and these too are tourist.

yuanzhumin · 31st July 2007, 09:36 AM

If I had missed two Taiwanese aboriginal spears on Ebay, I would have felt very bad ! It's so rare to find one, so missing two at the same time ! Fortunately, these two spears don't appear to be from Taiwan, despite the fact they strongly look like they do. In fact, the shape of the blade is different. The heads carved on the shaft could have been similar to the late works done in the 50s for the american troops stationed on the island. I see also a long carved line that could look like a snake, that is believed by Paiwan people to be their first ancestor. But once more, it is not from Taiwan. It's a souvenir that seems to be coming from Asia, may be Burma/India ?
I was last week in the south of Taiwan for the harvest festival in Puyuma and Rukai villages (I took some pics that can be seen on the forum part of my website - the Internet address can be found in previous posts). At this occasion, in Taitung, I bought a Yami knife, very simple but very rare. I have not taken any photos of it yet, but when I do you'll be the first, on this forum, to see them online. It's promised ;-)
Nicolas

VANDOO · 31st July 2007, 08:10 PM

EACH OF THE TWO SPEARS ALSO HAD A SNAKE CARVING ,THE PICTURES ARE STILL ON THE EBAY # I DID NOT POST ALL OF THEM.

ONE POSSIBILITY IS THESE WERE MADE BY CHINESE ON TAIWAN AND INCORPORATED CHINESE POINT FORMS WITH MODIFIED NATIVE DESIGNS ON THE SHAFTS. I ALSO THINK THESE WERE MADE FOR SOUVINEERS, PROPS OR CEREMONY NOT FOR ACTUAL USE AS A WEAPON.

yuanzhumin · 1st August 2007, 02:42 AM

You are 100% right, Vandoo.
I didn't check the other Ebay pictures when I wrote the previous post. Now, you show us the snake, I'm positive : these two spears are from Taiwan.
I've seen quite a few times before this particular snake pattern, exactly the same, on souvenirs made for American soldiers stationed here in the 50's.
These spears are supposed to be from the Paiwan group, but they were mostly done in suburbs workshops, not even by aboriginal people. The quality of the carving is very poor and the patterns are the result of a fusion style inspired, yes, by the traditional Paiwan style, but that is only a pale reflect of it.
What is funny this time is the variation in the shape of the blades. These blades are a copy of Taoist ceremonial spear blades that are still in use today during popular religious festivals here, mostly when there is the procession of the Eight Generals.
On the picture shown here after, you can see few of the 8 Generals holding their ceremonial weapons to fight evil. One has a spear whose balde is in the same style as the Ebay ones. http://www.flickr.com/photos/dans180/502845476/
Very often, the actors incarnating the Generals are in trance during the parade. Very impressive to see in reality.
Nicolas

31st July 2007, 08:10 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	EACH OF THE TWO SPEARS ALSO HAD A SNAKE CARVING ,THE PICTURES ARE STILL ON THE EBAY # I DID NOT POST ALL OF THEM. ONE POSSIBILITY IS THESE WERE MADE BY CHINESE ON TAIWAN AND INCORPORATED CHINESE POINT FORMS WITH MODIFIED NATIVE DESIGNS ON THE SHAFTS. I ALSO THINK THESE WERE MADE FOR SOUVINEERS, PROPS OR CEREMONY NOT FOR ACTUAL USE AS A WEAPON. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 31st July 2007 at 10:20 PM.

25th July 2007, 03:48 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	EBAY TWO SPEARS FORMOSA? TWO SPEARS JUST ENDED ON EBAY #140139519680 AND # 140139519230 THEY WERE IDENTIFIED AS BEING FROM FIJI I THINK THEY ARE FROM FORMOSA(TAIWAN) ABORIGINAL TRIBES SOUVINEERS OR CEREMONIAL PERHAPS SOME OF OUR MORE KNOWLEGABLE MEMBERS CAN COMMENT. Attached Images

25th July 2007, 04:39 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I cann't help it and I hope for the buyer I'm completely wrong, but it looks so awful touristic to me. Sometimes you find those things in those fleemarketshops in a corner. I really hope I'm completely wrong.

31st July 2007, 09:36 AM	#4
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	If I had missed two Taiwanese aboriginal spears on Ebay, I would have felt very bad ! It's so rare to find one, so missing two at the same time ! Fortunately, these two spears don't appear to be from Taiwan, despite the fact they strongly look like they do. In fact, the shape of the blade is different. The heads carved on the shaft could have been similar to the late works done in the 50s for the american troops stationed on the island. I see also a long carved line that could look like a snake, that is believed by Paiwan people to be their first ancestor. But once more, it is not from Taiwan. It's a souvenir that seems to be coming from Asia, may be Burma/India ? I was last week in the south of Taiwan for the harvest festival in Puyuma and Rukai villages (I took some pics that can be seen on the forum part of my website - the Internet address can be found in previous posts). At this occasion, in Taitung, I bought a Yami knife, very simple but very rare. I have not taken any photos of it yet, but when I do you'll be the first, on this forum, to see them online. It's promised ;-) Nicolas

1st August 2007, 02:42 AM	#6
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	You are 100% right, Vandoo. I didn't check the other Ebay pictures when I wrote the previous post. Now, you show us the snake, I'm positive : these two spears are from Taiwan. I've seen quite a few times before this particular snake pattern, exactly the same, on souvenirs made for American soldiers stationed here in the 50's. These spears are supposed to be from the Paiwan group, but they were mostly done in suburbs workshops, not even by aboriginal people. The quality of the carving is very poor and the patterns are the result of a fusion style inspired, yes, by the traditional Paiwan style, but that is only a pale reflect of it. What is funny this time is the variation in the shape of the blades. These blades are a copy of Taoist ceremonial spear blades that are still in use today during popular religious festivals here, mostly when there is the procession of the Eight Generals. On the picture shown here after, you can see few of the 8 Generals holding their ceremonial weapons to fight evil. One has a spear whose balde is in the same style as the Ebay ones. http://www.flickr.com/photos/dans180/502845476/ Very often, the actors incarnating the Generals are in trance during the parade. Very impressive to see in reality. Nicolas