Diamond shaped tulwar hilt

Jens Nordlunde · 12th January 2011, 02:18 PM

Not so long ago I got this tulwar, but I need the text translated, can anyone tell me in which language it is and what it says?

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2011, 05:43 AM

Hi Jens,
Nice Udaipuri hilted tulwar!!! Wouldnt this be Devanagari script ? Where is Olikara??

All the best,
Jim

olikara · 14th January 2011, 04:51 PM

Hello Jim,

The legible half reads as:
'Shri Dayal (Ji) Sairam (Das) Ji' which could be a name of the sword maker or owner. Dayal is a common North Indian Surname. While Sairam is actually the name of a God but also used as names of countless Hindus all over.

Since the koftgari in the second half has peeled off I cannot connect the words and so any translation would be meaningless.

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olikara

Hello Jim,

The legible half reads as:
'Shri Dayal (Ji) Sairam (Das) Ji' which could be a name of the sword maker or owner. Dayal is a common North Indian Surname. While Sairam is actually the name of a God but also used as names of countless Hindus all over.

Since the koftgari in the second half has peeled off I cannot connect the words and so any translation would be meaningless.

There you are!!! I was hoping the UFO's didnt get ya. Thank you for adding that translation. It seems pretty unusual to see inscriptions on these, but Jens always comes up with these unique examples.

All the best,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 14th January 2011, 09:37 PM

Nidhin, thank you for the translation, and Jim, I am a bit uncomfortable with the Udaipur expression, as none of us can be quite sure from where exactly it origins. I would feel better to say that it is Mewar/Rajput till we know more about it's origin.
It is however a fact, that these hilts are seen on variations from very slim, to slim, to 'normal' and to rather thick. This could be an indication of origin, but it could also be an indication of fashion - an interesting thing to research.
Jens

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2011, 11:30 PM

Thank you Jens, and of course you are right, when trying to think of the somewhat vague attempts at typology in Pant, it becomes more apparant that distinctly classifying these hilts is at this point not likely. As you know the same diamond grip feature and the extended and squared langets rather than flueret is termed 'Udaipuri' on one page and with similar features, "Shah Jahani' on another.

As there is, as far as I know, no formal study of classification of tulwar hilts aside from Pant's benchmark work, it is often tempting to reach for his ambiguous classifications to condense descriptions. It is probably of course more reliable to rely on the more detailed description than to attempt such arbitrary classification.

As you note, and we have discussed many times, there is truly a great deal of work yet to be done in understanding the styles and variations of these hilts.

All best regards,
Jim

Pukka Bundook · 15th January 2011, 07:42 AM

Very nice tulwar, Jens

Do you have an approximate date for it?

BTW, your email isn't working,...messages are being returned...

Best wishes,
Richard.

Jens Nordlunde · 15th January 2011, 04:21 PM

Hi Richard,
It is probably late 18th to first half of 19th century - but it is one of the things I intend to research when I get some more time.
Jens

12th January 2011, 02:18 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Diamond shaped tulwar hilt Not so long ago I got this tulwar, but I need the text translated, can anyone tell me in which language it is and what it says? Attached Images

14th January 2011, 05:43 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi Jens, Nice Udaipuri hilted tulwar!!! Wouldnt this be Devanagari script ? Where is Olikara?? All the best, Jim

14th January 2011, 04:51 PM	#3
olikara Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: India Posts: 100	Hello Jim, The legible half reads as: 'Shri Dayal (Ji) Sairam (Das) Ji' which could be a name of the sword maker or owner. Dayal is a common North Indian Surname. While Sairam is actually the name of a God but also used as names of countless Hindus all over. Since the koftgari in the second half has peeled off I cannot connect the words and so any translation would be meaningless.

14th January 2011, 09:37 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Nidhin, thank you for the translation, and Jim, I am a bit uncomfortable with the Udaipur expression, as none of us can be quite sure from where exactly it origins. I would feel better to say that it is Mewar/Rajput till we know more about it's origin. It is however a fact, that these hilts are seen on variations from very slim, to slim, to 'normal' and to rather thick. This could be an indication of origin, but it could also be an indication of fashion - an interesting thing to research. Jens

14th January 2011, 11:30 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Thank you Jens, and of course you are right, when trying to think of the somewhat vague attempts at typology in Pant, it becomes more apparant that distinctly classifying these hilts is at this point not likely. As you know the same diamond grip feature and the extended and squared langets rather than flueret is termed 'Udaipuri' on one page and with similar features, "Shah Jahani' on another. As there is, as far as I know, no formal study of classification of tulwar hilts aside from Pant's benchmark work, it is often tempting to reach for his ambiguous classifications to condense descriptions. It is probably of course more reliable to rely on the more detailed description than to attempt such arbitrary classification. As you note, and we have discussed many times, there is truly a great deal of work yet to be done in understanding the styles and variations of these hilts. All best regards, Jim

15th January 2011, 07:42 AM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Very nice tulwar, Jens Do you have an approximate date for it? BTW, your email isn't working,...messages are being returned... Best wishes, Richard.

15th January 2011, 04:21 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Richard, It is probably late 18th to first half of 19th century - but it is one of the things I intend to research when I get some more time. Jens