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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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Just got it and just started reding. No opinion yet except that it has nice pictures and very weak binding: the book is so heavy that the binding pulled apart after 20 minutes.
Warning: read it only when it is flat on the table and do not keep it vertical! |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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I'm really very excited about this book! From the reviews I've read, it promises to be a definitive work.
I'll be placing my order this week. ![]() |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland, Krakow
Posts: 418
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I'm still trying to gather money for this book
![]() ![]() Ariel: what do you mean about your warning ![]() |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 485
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hi michal,
i have also heard that the book is way too heavy for the binding, hence the warning. i dont have it yet, and have asked for opinions from people that have and no one is willing to commit themselves. ariel - read faster!! i have no doubt the historical side will be well written. what about the catalogued descriptions? we know that museums sometimes use a lot of wishful thinking when it comes to dating. does the author lift the descriptions, or use his own opinion? the latter is what we are all after in any new publication, but the former is what we normally end up with. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Germany
Posts: 8
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Dear fellow Enthusiasts!
I also received the book and worked through parts of it - it's a huge ammount of info and I'm quite busy at the moment. First in regards to the binding: Mine is still intact, and I didn't read it on a table as I dragged it arround with me during a few days of business travel; So ariel: I'd suggest that you contact the publisher. A book coming apart after 20 minutes is totally unacceptable and I'd ask them for a replacement. that is the least thing they should do (including postage). If it helps you can use my statement here as a refference in any negotiation - as my binding is still solid. On the subject that this book was called a "definitive work", or that it is regarded "definitive" by some of the readers: I would call such statements "over excitement" by some individuals and it makes me raise at least one eye brow ![]() Don't get me wrong - it truly is a book that I'm excited about - at least in regards to chapter 7 and 10 that I've read so far (and with my limited knowledge of persian history I'd have better started with chapter 1) But calling something "definitive" is out of place. No academic book will ever be definitive - labeling it as such denies the progress of mankind. Religious and holy text are regarded as "definite" or "definitive" by their believers, academic works can be "ground breaking", "revealing", etc. - but never definitive. Just my 2 euro cents. So I'll get back to chapter 1 now kind regards Andreas Volk |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
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WOW
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#7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland, Krakow
Posts: 418
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I hope it will be ok to post a link to official site of this impressive book where more info can be gathered:
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de/ |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 655
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Gentlemen,
I have not read a book yet, so here is my prediction: a. It it probably going to be a definitive book on arms and armour, with great , well described examples. b. I have yet to read a history book written by a persian that would not be dedicated to glorifying persian culture, persian tolerance and persian territorial claims (they usually claim Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Dagestan, Kurdistan and others to be 100% persian lands taken away by some colonizers), and so on, and so on. I am not going to argue these positions - it is not a history forum, just a matter of prediction. So, my guess is 180 degrees from yours, B.I. - great catalogue of weapons but a persian book in all other aspects. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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B.I. and Rivkin,
Let us reserve the judgements until we read it. After all, as my wife said when she saw this huge volume " This guy must know a lot!" Now, let's dig in and learn some new things, find novel insights, contradictions and just plain errors. The rumors were floating for years, the promise to "explain it all" were made in advance and the only proper thing to do was to keep quiet and let the author do his job. Now this book is out and in a public domain. It is our responsibility to read it carefully before passing any judgement. If it is good, let praise it. If it is bad, let's critique it. Enjoy the show! |
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#10 | |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Magenta, Northern Italy
Posts: 123
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#11 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Magenta, Northern Italy
Posts: 123
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@ Ariel. The copy I've handled for a while was rock solid binding.
You deserve a new copy from the publisher IMHO. Don't let bad luck discourage you to appraise such a nice book. @ Andreas : You're right about the word "definitive" but I think it has been used here with joyfully enphasis rather than to be taken literally. |
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#12 | |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Magenta, Northern Italy
Posts: 123
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#13 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland, Krakow
Posts: 418
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Can't tell anything before reading it, but I was waiting for this book as promising source of knowledge. Mr. Manoucher (the Author) contacted me some time ago in case of Polish bibliography, he is in every way Gentlemen and I remember him very positive. I know he had many lectures on Universities, and the book was prepared with help of many people from many countries (hope I didn't make mistake and my memory isn't fault in this matter) including Iran. I believe this is good piece of hard work and it will be on of the most important reference books on this matter through next few years. Despite some nuances and differences in point of look. In Poland it is said that 'one is not wrong who's done nothing'
![]() Regards! |
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#14 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
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I'm saddened to hear people making innuendos about a work of obvious dedication and passion .
Let us all come back and discuss the merits of this offering after we have read it for ourselves . Rick |
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#15 |
Deceased
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear?
Posts: 121
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I agree with Mr. Rick, we should wait, sort of read before you speak.
This is a link to a lecture (video) about the book by the author. I also ordered the book from the publisher in Germany. I told the publisher to hurry the shipment as I needed to start my exercise program, ![]() Gene http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03819897907514 P S this video is over 1 1/2 hours long ![]() Last edited by Mare Rosu; 19th September 2006 at 10:41 PM. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 485
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i made no innuendos, comments or judgements about this book. i look forward to reading it, just like anything else new on oriental arms. i only asked if the author used his own opinion to date pieces.
he has listed the inventories of 10 museums that have never been published before. even if the book turned out to be completely useless in text, it would be invaluable for this alone. if i learn one new thing in a book, then the cover price is justified. everyone looks for different things in a new publication. for me it is good pictures and a strong individual opinion. i was intrigued to see which stance the author took, whether he went through each piece and described and dated them, or just photographed and copied what he saw. i dont see this as pre-judging, more curious and impatient. |
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#17 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
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I didn't say that you did B.I.
I regret that you construed it as such . |
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#18 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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As a matter of fact, I kind of like somewhat tattered books (just like "very used" swords and comfort food ![]() I am not going to use this book as a "coffee table" one (or, at least, I hope not! ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
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Is the binding just a bit wiggly or has it actually pulled apart, as is the impression I got from your first post?
Either way I cannot imagine there are many faulty copies which have been sold. The book is quality! The materials used are quality, the content, the pictures...and it actually presents a good year or 2 of reading for me, not that I'm a slow reader, just that I have little time on my hands these days. I would recommend anybody who has an interest in Persian Arms and Armour to buy this book |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Hi Mumtaz. Great to see you here.
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#21 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Gentlemen:
As the saying goes, "there is an elephant standing in the room and I'm not going to ignore it." The author of this book is well known to many of us. Likewise, some here have had prior disagreements with Manouchehr here and on SFI. He no longer posts here, and will be unable to personally respond to comments about his book. Constructive and civil criticism of the book itself is welcome. However, uncivil, impolite or harsh criticism is not. Nor will personal attacks or editorial comments about the author be permitted. We have not tolerated this about other authors and books, and we will not start now. We have had inter-fora issues in the past, and I am not interested in seeing them resumed. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation. Andrew Vikingsword Staff |
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#22 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
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#23 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 909
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Ordering directly from the publisher via the link above and paying with their linked PayPal option cost 177 euros ($230) including air frieght.
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#24 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
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Thanks Andrew....good to be here! I just saw the keris forum today so that's an added bonus to this site ![]() |
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#25 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10
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#26 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10
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Hello,
I absolutely agree with Mumtazb: this book is of the highest quality with over eight years of research within it. Both the text and catalogue sections are excellent. The text is all academic, and there is an extensive bibliography for you, the interested party, to start your own research. The same quality goes for the binding. What has been described as "weak binding" is certainly out of the ordinary. For my part, I have held the book vertically quite a bit, and the binding holds well. I suppose if the book is manipulated while held vertically, it could damage the spine, but that is the same for any large book. A book of this siaze, as suggested, is best enjoyed if it is placed horizontally on a flat surface. However, that has nothing to do with the quality of the book's content: it has plenty to do with common sense. Keep this in mind when looking at it. If one is interested in Persian arms and armor, this is, quite seriously, the best book on the subject. And I would like to say something about "definitive" as it has been used. If one thinks of "definitive" as a static thing, a definition written in stone, then this book is not "definitive." But if one thinks of definitions as things that change, particularly in academics, then this text is "definitive" as a starting point. Manoucher will be the first to state this. Regardless of how one regards this book, it is a fantastic starting point for future research. Sincerely, Doug M |
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#27 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10
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It is best for readers to ignore the "predicted" association of "a persian book in all other aspects" and read the text. This is not a time to "enjoy the show"--whatever that means--but a time to review what has been written and comment on it in a respectful manner. Sincerely, Doug M |
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#28 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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![]() Didn't you and Mumtaz help edit the book? Personally, I'd love to hear more about that process and a "behind the scenes" perspective once I've had the chance to look it over. Did you edit only the text portion, or did you get the opportunity to participate in the photos and captions as well? Best, Andrew |
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#29 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 909
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#30 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 987
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Yeesh. It goes to show that if someone wants to be critical, they don't bother much with the details.
![]() I guess I am being critical of Sauvage, but that kind of gratuitous, at-any-cost criticism just burns me up. ![]() ![]() As for Manoucherer, I don't think anyone is accusing him of being less than thorough and comprehensive. Still, it won't surprise me if some finds some fault to harp on. As we say in the legal business, "if the facts are against you, argue the law; if the law is against you, argue the facts; and if both are against you, just argue." ![]() I must stop, as I am in grave danger of hijacking the thread. ![]() |
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