Uzbeck Pichok

Aurangzeb · 2nd June 2005, 02:03 AM

Hello All!

I have finally got a very good quality Uzbek pichok. It is definately a using piece, the quality is great! The blade is either carbon steel, that was chrome plated or stainless steel. (I can't tell which one it is) The blade is well made either way and was hand forged, as well as the whole knife being hand made. On the blade and handle there is some sort of odd script, maybe someone can translate it. There are 12 small glass 'jewels' on the handle. What I find odd about this is that the sheath does no swallow it up to the top of the pommel, and does not have a belt loop of any sort. (perhaps it had a frog at some time or another) It is not that old I would say anywhere from the 1991 break up of the USSR to the present, would this estimate be correct or not? Any comments or information on translation would be much appreciated.

ariel · 2nd June 2005, 05:46 PM

I have several of those: usually quite well made, very pretty.
Most were made 1998 and later.

Aurangzeb · 3rd June 2005, 12:28 AM

Hello Ariel!

Yes they are very pretty knifes. I like your estimate on it's age more than mine, looks like I bought the right coin set dated 1994(close enough to 1998!)

I have two more comming that have the longer sheath I will post them when I finally get them. Is there a way to test if it is chrome plated or is stainless steel. The one reason I am leaning toward stainless steel is that I matched it up against a stainless steel axe head I have that is mirror polsihed like the dagger and the color and mirror liker qualities match.

Bye.

P.S.- For great information on pichiks and Uzbek culture in general the website " http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/uzb/uzb3211.htm " this is one of the best websites I have seen on this stuff!

Judging from this site my pichok seems to be a soili or komalak pichok due to the trench on the one side of the blade.

tom hyle · 4th June 2005, 03:41 AM

If you have some cold bluing solution such as used on firearms, most stainless steel is unaffected by the stuff, while it will darken chrome. Of course there could be exceptions; stainlesses it works on(?are there?); other types of plate; something to try though....

Aurangzeb · 4th June 2005, 01:07 PM

Hello Tom!

I like the idea. But will this permantly darken it if it is chorme.

P'S'- I don'y know if you know this but stainless steel often has chomium, and more modern stainless may also contain nickel, niobium ,molybdenum, and titanium.
This information I got off of http://chemistry.about.com/cs/metals...a/aa071201.htm

tom hyle · 4th June 2005, 02:45 PM

The darkened part may be hard to remove. I'd suggest a tiny out of the way spot.
Chromium over 12% (or 11?) is considered the main factor in most modern stainless steel; it is also considered to be a promoter of crackiness, so it's OK for knives, but not for swords. The properties of metals within alloys can be considerably different than when they're on their own. For instance, either the chromium or the iron by itself would react with the bluing solution, but combined as stainless steel....

ALEX · 23rd February 2019, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I have several of those: usually quite well made, very pretty. Most were made 1998 and later.

Ariel,
I know you like reviving old posts

I agree, these knifes are pretty, late 20thC. The knife in Post 1 is from the city of Shakhrikhon in the Andijan province of Uzbekistan. The blade is polished stainless steel. As you know, there are several main knife making centers in Uzbekistan, their production looks generally similar. In addition, many knifes are coming to Uzbekistan from Afghanistan and other nearby countries, most also look quite similar to the locally made, some are really high quality with impressive damascus blades and elaborate handles. In terms of vintage Uzbek Pichok knifes, below is compilation of the late 20thC types, an older Shakhrikhon knife from Oriental-Arms site, and variety of different vintage Shakhrikhon (and some Chyust) knifes.

OsobistGB · 24th February 2019, 02:11 AM

Forgive me , but I want to make a small remark

The local name of the knife is PCHAK.It comes from the Turkish word bıçak.

ariel · 24th February 2019, 05:18 AM

Correct: P’chak, a local variant of Turkish Bichaq
A virtually identical knife from Tajikistan is a Kord, a local variant of Persian Kard. Both words have the same meaning and translation: knife:-)

Tajiks speak Dari, a dialect of Farsi, while Uzbeks are Turks. Despite living in close proximity, these are two different people. Even now, their diets are subtly different: Uzbeks eat horse meat and a lot of dairy products, reflecting their nomadic past.

Tajiks were the original inhabitants, settled farmers, but Uzbeks were latecoming nomadic “mongols”. Tajiks were squeezed out of their lands into the mountainous areas. The originally Tajik towns, such as Bukhara and Samarkand became centers of Uzbek Khanates, and after the 1917 Russian Revolution Tajikistan became only an Autonomous Republic within the full-blown Soviet Socialist Uzbek Republic.
Tajiks were in effect subjugated, but were significantly more acculturated. In fact, however the majority of Bukhara ( Uzbek town) inhabitants were ethnic Tajiks. Ethnic Uzbeks in significant proportion led nomadic way of life.
Till now Uzbekistan is relatively rich, whereas Tajikistan is dirt poor.

Even in my youth ( still in the USSR), there was a saying that the surest way of being knifed ( sorry: Kord-ed:-) by a Tajik is to call him an Uzbek.

Their weapons may be called slightly different, but are in effect identical, differing not in the ethnic sense, but in the manufacturing locality one.
When we are talking about “Bukharan” weapons, we inadvertently mix in those made in the former Khanates of Kokand, Khiva, Samarkand etc.

Regretfully, Russian occupation of Central-Asian Khanates, as well as their repression of independence movements after the revolution led to mass emigration of both ethnicities to Afghanistan and Iran and virtually total confiscation of weapons from the remaining people.

Currently, one has much better chance to find old Central-Asian weapons outside the former USSR.

A whole plast of history was lost an will never be researched.

Alex, while you are there, can you visit local museums and talk to the curators? Maybe, some snippets of old history are still preserved. Every scrap will be priceless.

Let us know what have you found, including local names for their daggers and sabers as well as for their guardless sabers that we out of sheer ignorance call “ Bukharan sabers”, “pseudoshashkas” and such

Tatyana Dianova · 1st April 2019, 09:48 PM

Here are mine Pchak. I find them pretty attractive.
All of them are modern day production and were bought in Kiev from fruits sellers from Uzbekistan. All have good quality blades. One of them has a differentially hardened blade made of some kind of crucible steel

2nd June 2005, 02:03 AM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Uzbeck Pichok Hello All! I have finally got a very good quality Uzbek pichok. It is definately a using piece, the quality is great! The blade is either carbon steel, that was chrome plated or stainless steel. (I can't tell which one it is) The blade is well made either way and was hand forged, as well as the whole knife being hand made. On the blade and handle there is some sort of odd script, maybe someone can translate it. There are 12 small glass 'jewels' on the handle. What I find odd about this is that the sheath does no swallow it up to the top of the pommel, and does not have a belt loop of any sort. (perhaps it had a frog at some time or another) It is not that old I would say anywhere from the 1991 break up of the USSR to the present, would this estimate be correct or not? Any comments or information on translation would be much appreciated. Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 12:28 AM	#3
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello Ariel! Yes they are very pretty knifes. I like your estimate on it's age more than mine, looks like I bought the right coin set dated 1994(close enough to 1998!) I have two more comming that have the longer sheath I will post them when I finally get them. Is there a way to test if it is chrome plated or is stainless steel. The one reason I am leaning toward stainless steel is that I matched it up against a stainless steel axe head I have that is mirror polsihed like the dagger and the color and mirror liker qualities match. Bye. P.S.- For great information on pichiks and Uzbek culture in general the website " http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/uzb/uzb3211.htm " this is one of the best websites I have seen on this stuff! Judging from this site my pichok seems to be a soili or komalak pichok due to the trench on the one side of the blade. Last edited by Aurangzeb; 3rd June 2005 at 03:30 AM.

24th February 2019, 02:11 AM	#8
OsobistGB Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 94	Forgive me , but I want to make a small remark The local name of the knife is PCHAK.It comes from the Turkish word bıçak. Attached Images

24th February 2019, 05:18 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Correct: P’chak, a local variant of Turkish Bichaq A virtually identical knife from Tajikistan is a Kord, a local variant of Persian Kard. Both words have the same meaning and translation: knife:-) Tajiks speak Dari, a dialect of Farsi, while Uzbeks are Turks. Despite living in close proximity, these are two different people. Even now, their diets are subtly different: Uzbeks eat horse meat and a lot of dairy products, reflecting their nomadic past. Tajiks were the original inhabitants, settled farmers, but Uzbeks were latecoming nomadic “mongols”. Tajiks were squeezed out of their lands into the mountainous areas. The originally Tajik towns, such as Bukhara and Samarkand became centers of Uzbek Khanates, and after the 1917 Russian Revolution Tajikistan became only an Autonomous Republic within the full-blown Soviet Socialist Uzbek Republic. Tajiks were in effect subjugated, but were significantly more acculturated. In fact, however the majority of Bukhara ( Uzbek town) inhabitants were ethnic Tajiks. Ethnic Uzbeks in significant proportion led nomadic way of life. Till now Uzbekistan is relatively rich, whereas Tajikistan is dirt poor. Even in my youth ( still in the USSR), there was a saying that the surest way of being knifed ( sorry: Kord-ed:-) by a Tajik is to call him an Uzbek. Their weapons may be called slightly different, but are in effect identical, differing not in the ethnic sense, but in the manufacturing locality one. When we are talking about “Bukharan” weapons, we inadvertently mix in those made in the former Khanates of Kokand, Khiva, Samarkand etc. Regretfully, Russian occupation of Central-Asian Khanates, as well as their repression of independence movements after the revolution led to mass emigration of both ethnicities to Afghanistan and Iran and virtually total confiscation of weapons from the remaining people. Currently, one has much better chance to find old Central-Asian weapons outside the former USSR. A whole plast of history was lost an will never be researched. Alex, while you are there, can you visit local museums and talk to the curators? Maybe, some snippets of old history are still preserved. Every scrap will be priceless. Let us know what have you found, including local names for their daggers and sabers as well as for their guardless sabers that we out of sheer ignorance call “ Bukharan sabers”, “pseudoshashkas” and such Last edited by ariel; 24th February 2019 at 05:46 AM.

1st April 2019, 09:48 PM	#10
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 695	Here are mine Pchak. I find them pretty attractive. All of them are modern day production and were bought in Kiev from fruits sellers from Uzbekistan. All have good quality blades. One of them has a differentially hardened blade made of some kind of crucible steel Attached Images

2nd June 2005, 05:46 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have several of those: usually quite well made, very pretty. Most were made 1998 and later.

4th June 2005, 03:41 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	If you have some cold bluing solution such as used on firearms, most stainless steel is unaffected by the stuff, while it will darken chrome. Of course there could be exceptions; stainlesses it works on(?are there?); other types of plate; something to try though....

4th June 2005, 01:07 PM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello Tom! I like the idea. But will this permantly darken it if it is chorme. P'S'- I don'y know if you know this but stainless steel often has chomium, and more modern stainless may also contain nickel, niobium ,molybdenum, and titanium. This information I got off of http://chemistry.about.com/cs/metals...a/aa071201.htm

4th June 2005, 02:45 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The darkened part may be hard to remove. I'd suggest a tiny out of the way spot. Chromium over 12% (or 11?) is considered the main factor in most modern stainless steel; it is also considered to be a promoter of crackiness, so it's OK for knives, but not for swords. The properties of metals within alloys can be considerably different than when they're on their own. For instance, either the chromium or the iron by itself would react with the bluing solution, but combined as stainless steel....