Espada ancha--recycled M1832 Artillery Sword?

Ian · 29th March 2016, 04:15 AM

This espada ancha was sold online today (but I was not the successful bidder

).

What caught my attention was the blade, which appears to be a re-purposed M1832 U.S. infantry artillery sword. That was the opinion of the seller also. Apparently there were no marks remaining on the blade and it appeared to have been filed down at the ricasso. Pictures are attached of the sword as well as one of the M1832 artillery sword.

The espada ancha is an interesting weapon, used by peasants and the wealthy. It comes in many sizes and varying quality, but always very functional and with few frills. Determining the age of these swords is hard because many seem to have been made locally and the quality of the forging was often fairly basic with no distinguishing features or marks. This one would seem to have been assembled in about the mid-19th C, judging from the age of the blade and the sword's general appearance.

Ian.

Roland_M · 29th March 2016, 12:51 PM

Hi Ian,

this blade could also be from a french Model 1816 Artilery sword: "Glaive de Artillerie a pied Modell 1816".

Roland

Masich · 10th April 2016, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi Ian,

this blade could also be from a french Model 1816 Artilery sword: "Glaive de Artillerie a pied Modell 1816".

Roland

I agree that this espada ancha is likely a modified Glaive d'artillerie à pied modèle 1816. The pattern/placement of grooves and the fact that the French blade has less of a "waist" than its 1832 American cousin makes me think the Mexican artificer would not have had much trouble grinding it to espada form.

In either case, it is a wonderful piece--just the sort of thing I am hoping to document for a book I'm working on related to the 1861-67 French Intervention in Mexico. American, French, and British arms found their way to Mexico in great quantities as Juarez's Republicans fought Maximilian and the Mexican Conservatives/Imperialists and their French allies.

I just acquired an espada ancha made from a yataghan sword bayonet. I'm wishfully thinking that its a French M1842/59 pattern (pictured, top). But it could be a M1866 (bottom) or even an American or British bayonet. Any advice on identification would be much appreciated.

Andy Masich

Shakethetrees · 11th April 2016, 04:26 AM

Here's a shot of an early French Glaive D'Artillerie for comparison.

machinist · 11th April 2016, 07:07 AM

I am surprised I did not see this thread until today, sorry Ian but it is mine now.

The historical possibilities made it hard to pass up and if I have to eat beans and rice for a while so be it. It won't be the first time.
The idea of it being of French origin certainly pleases me and opens up many unprovable possibilities,
a prize from the battle of Puebla? An even earlier relic of the "Pastry war"?
I imagine nationalistic pride rather than necessity caused its reforging and rehilting into a proper Mexican sword.

Ian · 12th April 2016, 03:54 PM

Congratulations on a nice acquisition! I'm pleased it found an appreciative home. There are a number of historical possibilities, as you point out. I thought it was an interesting talking point for this forum, and a possible French connection makes it a little more intriguing.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by machinist

I am surprised I did not see this thread until today, sorry Ian but it is mine now.

The historical possibilities made it hard to pass up and if I have to eat beans and rice for a while so be it. It won't be the first time.
The idea of it being of French origin certainly pleases me and opens up many unprovable possibilities,
a prize from the battle of Puebla? An even earlier relic of the "Pastry war"?
I imagine nationalistic pride rather than necessity caused its reforging and rehilting into a proper Mexican sword.

29th March 2016, 04:15 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Espada ancha--recycled M1832 Artillery Sword? This espada ancha was sold online today (but I was not the successful bidder ). What caught my attention was the blade, which appears to be a re-purposed M1832 U.S. infantry artillery sword. That was the opinion of the seller also. Apparently there were no marks remaining on the blade and it appeared to have been filed down at the ricasso. Pictures are attached of the sword as well as one of the M1832 artillery sword. The espada ancha is an interesting weapon, used by peasants and the wealthy. It comes in many sizes and varying quality, but always very functional and with few frills. Determining the age of these swords is hard because many seem to have been made locally and the quality of the forging was often fairly basic with no distinguishing features or marks. This one would seem to have been assembled in about the mid-19th C, judging from the age of the blade and the sword's general appearance. Ian. Attached Images

11th April 2016, 04:26 AM	#4
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Here's a shot of an early French Glaive D'Artillerie for comparison. Attached Images

29th March 2016, 12:51 PM	#2
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hi Ian, this blade could also be from a french Model 1816 Artilery sword: "Glaive de Artillerie a pied Modell 1816". Roland

11th April 2016, 07:07 AM	#5
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	I am surprised I did not see this thread until today, sorry Ian but it is mine now. The historical possibilities made it hard to pass up and if I have to eat beans and rice for a while so be it. It won't be the first time. The idea of it being of French origin certainly pleases me and opens up many unprovable possibilities, a prize from the battle of Puebla? An even earlier relic of the "Pastry war"? I imagine nationalistic pride rather than necessity caused its reforging and rehilting into a proper Mexican sword.