Neat little knife

shayde78 · 22nd October 2018, 11:49 PM

I just acquired this little knife. I nearly passed on it, because I first thought it to be one of the many Mexican Bowie knives produced in the later half of the 20th century. However, the ferrule seems more Central Asian, the sheath seems Middle Eastern/N. African, and the inlays on the hilt and blade...Balkins, perhaps? I even thought Ueghar, initially, but in now that I've seen it in person, not so much. Also, I just noticed that along the spine (barely descernable in the photo), there is an additional fuller. I feel I've only seen this in S. Asian blades (maybe Persian). By this, I mean a fuller forged into the spine itself, not on the blade face (see the 9th photo below)

I suspect someone here will know it immediately, and I thank you for taking a look and offering your impressions.

Thanks,
-Rob

TVV · 23rd October 2018, 01:28 AM

To me it looks 100% Turkish.

Teodor

Battara · 23rd October 2018, 02:53 AM

More specifically, it seems more Syrian or Lebanese, both next to each other and within the Ottoman empire at one time.

Kubur · 23rd October 2018, 10:28 AM

To me it's 100% Syrian/Lebanese
with a strong Turkish influence of Surmene knives
check on our forum you'll see...

Kubur

ariel · 23rd October 2018, 01:40 PM

I would hesitate putting Surmene knives ( Trabzon area) together with Syrian/Lebanese patterns. After all, these are opposite poles of the country.

motan · 25th October 2018, 10:06 AM

Hi,
This definitely looks like a Surmene knife from the Trabzon area, and it could very well be one. But I understand the confusion.
There are some elements that look Syrian or Lebanese.
The quality and finish of Surmene knifes is usually high and the decoration is sparse, besides the intricate pattern of fullers. The blade on this one is of a bit lower quality, the fullers are shallow and the "red eye" is a Syrian, not Trabzon element. The scabbard also looks Syrian, and Trabzon knives have a leather scabbard, or leather with metal embossing.
So, where is it from? I can only guess. Syrian workshops were not very style-fast. The catered to everyone's taste. They made a variety of Syrian kindjals for Caucasian Ottoman clients, swords of different sorts for the Bedouin, like shamshirs and other sabers with kilij hilt, and many styles of daggers, both for real use as for tourists. I guess this could be a surmene knife made in Syria, maybe for an Ottoman subject from Northern Turkey.

TVV · 25th October 2018, 10:41 PM

Kubur and Motan know a lot more than me about these knives, so I am very likely wrong on my assessment.

Teodor

shayde78 · 26th October 2018, 11:15 PM

Thank you everyone for the feedback!
I hadn't been familiar with Surmene knives before, and this is really interesting information. Motan, i appreciate your validation that the sheath doesn't match some of the stylistic features of the knife itself. Not being that familiar with Syrian knives, it reminded me of Moroccan scabbards.

Thanks again, all. I appreciate the education

22nd October 2018, 11:49 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Neat little knife I just acquired this little knife. I nearly passed on it, because I first thought it to be one of the many Mexican Bowie knives produced in the later half of the 20th century. However, the ferrule seems more Central Asian, the sheath seems Middle Eastern/N. African, and the inlays on the hilt and blade...Balkins, perhaps? I even thought Ueghar, initially, but in now that I've seen it in person, not so much. Also, I just noticed that along the spine (barely descernable in the photo), there is an additional fuller. I feel I've only seen this in S. Asian blades (maybe Persian). By this, I mean a fuller forged into the spine itself, not on the blade face (see the 9th photo below) I suspect someone here will know it immediately, and I thank you for taking a look and offering your impressions. Thanks, -Rob Attached Images

23rd October 2018, 01:28 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	To me it looks 100% Turkish. Teodor

23rd October 2018, 02:53 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	More specifically, it seems more Syrian or Lebanese, both next to each other and within the Ottoman empire at one time.

23rd October 2018, 10:28 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	To me it's 100% Syrian/Lebanese with a strong Turkish influence of Surmene knives check on our forum you'll see... Kubur

23rd October 2018, 01:40 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I would hesitate putting Surmene knives ( Trabzon area) together with Syrian/Lebanese patterns. After all, these are opposite poles of the country.

25th October 2018, 10:06 AM	#6
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi, This definitely looks like a Surmene knife from the Trabzon area, and it could very well be one. But I understand the confusion. There are some elements that look Syrian or Lebanese. The quality and finish of Surmene knifes is usually high and the decoration is sparse, besides the intricate pattern of fullers. The blade on this one is of a bit lower quality, the fullers are shallow and the "red eye" is a Syrian, not Trabzon element. The scabbard also looks Syrian, and Trabzon knives have a leather scabbard, or leather with metal embossing. So, where is it from? I can only guess. Syrian workshops were not very style-fast. The catered to everyone's taste. They made a variety of Syrian kindjals for Caucasian Ottoman clients, swords of different sorts for the Bedouin, like shamshirs and other sabers with kilij hilt, and many styles of daggers, both for real use as for tourists. I guess this could be a surmene knife made in Syria, maybe for an Ottoman subject from Northern Turkey.

25th October 2018, 10:41 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Kubur and Motan know a lot more than me about these knives, so I am very likely wrong on my assessment. Teodor

26th October 2018, 11:15 PM	#8
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thank you everyone for the feedback! I hadn't been familiar with Surmene knives before, and this is really interesting information. Motan, i appreciate your validation that the sheath doesn't match some of the stylistic features of the knife itself. Not being that familiar with Syrian knives, it reminded me of Moroccan scabbards. Thanks again, all. I appreciate the education