UNUSUAL OTTOMAN IVORY YATAGHAN TRANSLATION PLEASE

[ilias]

Hi everyone.
I have this unusual for me ottoman yataghan.
The scabbard is made from ivory.The upper and down parts are ivory and at the middle there is wood covered with velvet now worn out and gold stich at the middle.
The grips are also ivory and the metal parts are silver gilted.
There are three gilted siler flowers with green stones possibly emeralds?
I believe that this is a court yataghan of 18th century and quite unusual.
I see at the stamp at the blade with a date 1161 -1747? and if you can help me to find out what the signature says.
Most of all I wanted to share it with you.
Every input will be great!!.
Thanks in advance.

[ilias]

some more pictures!!

[Atlantia]

Hi Brian.

I hope you are accpeting comments?
If so then mine is WOW!
What a nice and complete example.

[carlos]

My heart is broken !!!
congratulations!!

carlos

[laEspadaAncha]

Beautiful yat...

Would you mind taking (and posting) some macro shots of the emerald cabs on the hilt? Thanks in advance...

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ilias

I see at the stamp at the blade with a date 1161 -1747? and if you can help me to find out what the signature says.
Most of all I wanted to share it with you.
Every input will be great!!.
Thanks in advance.

Hi Ilias
indeed very awesome "Ya" by the ivory mounts
but I have a very bad news for you
no way to read a date somewhere,
in the stamp, we might read
AMAL either MADE BY
that mean, what you are supposed be as date, in fact is (must be) a name
seems to be "AGA" or something near
deeply sorry to broke your nice expectations

à +

Dom
ps/ there is, an other stamp ?

[ilias]

Thanks everyone for your nice comments.
laEspadaAncha I will gladly provide you closer photos.
Dom thanks a lot for your answer.I am glad that it has a name as you say.
Shall I take a better photo?Or you are positive about it?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ilias

...snip... Dom thanks a lot for your answer.I am glad that it has a name as you say.
Shall I take a better photo?Or you are positive about it?

I'm sad for you to don't have a date ...
the pic it's OK, just the name is unusual for us, coze not Arabic,
so, it's possible if my friend "Zifir" pass by, he could correct it, but
the word "AMAL" is very clear
no risk of misinterpretation, about it

I don't think that it's old as far as you estimated, I guess more 19th C.
may be as you suggest, was a court yatagan, but the blade is very simple,
when during the same time, for less prestigious weapons,
the blades were having dedications, and decor

my thought is, it's more a presentation "ya", than a weapon,
mainly, if the stones on the hilt are, really a gems

all the best

à +

Dom

[Battara]

What a fascinating piece! First of this type I have ever seen - ivory mounts instead of, say, silver, gold, or brass.

Question: Isn't an Aga a type of commander in the old Ottoman armies?

[CharlesS]

What a strange and fascinating example....gorgeous piece! I would think an ivory mouth and chape would be quite fragile, but obviously these have held up well and beautifully.

Never seen one like it....thanks for sharing!

[Norman McCormick]

http://warfare.atwebpages.com/Ottoma...der_Turken.htm


Hi Guys,
Try the above site, lots of illustrations Janissaries etc. also do try the menu at the bottom of the page lots more to see. Hope this is useful and interesting.
Regards,
Norman.

[ilias]

I upload the pictures that laEspadaAncha requested.I did the best i can.I dont know if the result is the best.
Norman thanks for the illustrations.Very helpfull!!!
The stones are emeralds.I have checked them today.The two of them are broken but the others are in good condition.
Also Dom the Aga is a high rank officers title.Isn't it.Or in that case is just a name?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ilias

Also Dom the Aga is a high rank officers title.Isn't it.Or in that case is just a name?

Originally Posted by Battara

Question: Isn't an Aga a type of commander in the old Ottoman armies?

yes, Agha was a rank in Ottoman army,
was at least (see wikipedia) 6 kinds of "Agha" some are "commander" for very small unities

more reasonable;
- if it's a title ... where is the name ?
- I doubt that a blacksmith could have a title of "Aga" ...
and again, where is his name ?
every time, "AMAL" it's following by a name

- I guess that the name mentioned after "AMAL" it's may be mistranslated by us,
don't forget that Ottoman language is unknown for us,
the translator, is using her Arabic knowledge, possible to have some distortion ... at end

was the meaning of my advice when I wrote ;
- the pic it's OK, just the name is unusual for us, coze not Arabic,
so, it's possible if my friend "Zifir" pass by, he could correct it,

I'm confused at not being able to meet your expectations

all the best

à +

Dom

[Zifir]

I think we are not looking at a standard Muslim or Turkish name. Just an opinion but this might be a non-Muslim name or a nickname. There are possible combinations but nothing exact. It might be:

a(e)-h- a(e) -l - i

or with a little bit overstretching it can be read as adalı (meaning "from island") and might be a nickname.

Best,

[ilias]

Dear Dom and Zifir.
Thanks a lot for your answers and you efffort.
I understand the translation difficulty for such words.
Thanks a lot again.