Yet another Dha

ariel · 27th October 2005, 01:36 PM

I must admit: when a Dha is pretty, it is really beautiful.
Look at this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

The blade needs cleaning and is of yet unknown quality, but the silverwork is outstanding.

RhysMichael · 27th October 2005, 02:24 PM

I agree it has very nice silver work on it, as well as the carved ivory. But unless Maung Po Thein is a historical figure of import I think the price is unusually high. I have not had time to look him up yet. Perhaps Andrew, Ian or Mark will have heard of him

Mark · 27th October 2005, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

I agree it has very nice silver work on it, as well as the carved ivory. But unless Maung Po Thein is a historical figure of import I think the price is unusually high. I have not had time to look him up yet. Perhaps Andrew, Ian or Mark will have heard of him

Definately a beautiful sword. Definately over priced. I have never heard of Maung Po Thein, but then again I have seen so many names in various records it is not easy to remember. "Maung" implies that he was a regional governer, though, so he would have been someone of relatively high status. I'll keep an eye out for him.

Alam Shah · 27th October 2005, 03:58 PM

The only reference I can find on "Maung Po Thein" is a reference to a forced labor villager from Win-ka-na village, Win-yae Township.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs/year...ed%20labor.htm

Tim Simmons · 27th October 2005, 05:36 PM

I think it is not just over priced, more ridiculous. I work on a lot of silver objects and I am always puzzled at how sometimes only foil thin silver work, all be it quite pretty but basically very simple can send prices to dizzying heights. The repousse work on this is above average but is not anything that cannot be found on a lot of late 19th century silver jardinieres from Burma and other SE Asian countries. It looks as if the blade might clean up nicely. Tim

Rick · 27th October 2005, 05:55 PM

Puzzles me as to why Maung Po Thein is written in our alphabet and not in native script .

Ian · 27th October 2005, 06:14 PM

Nice dha indeed, but the price is over the top by any standards.

The style of silver work is in the Lao tradition, with the segmented panels on the scabbard being characteristic of that style. It is still seen today on occasional high end contemporary Lao dha -- I have an example from the 1970s that is similar in style.

The presence of English and Burmese inscriptions on the scabbard indicates a Burmese provenance during the period of the British colonial administration which was from the early 1880s to Burmese independence just after WWII. These "distinguished presentation swords" are not very common, are often dated and usually have an inscription about the valor and virtue of the recipient, although this one does not seem to have a date or inscription. The three previous examples I have seen were dated from about 1900 to 1930.

Ian.

Mark · 27th October 2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think it is not just over priced, more ridiculous. I work on a lot of silver objects and I am always puzzled at how sometimes only foil thin silver work, all be it quite pretty but basically very simple can send prices to dizzying heights. The repousse work on this is above average but is not anything that cannot be found on a lot of late 19th century silver jardinieres from Burma and other SE Asian countries. It looks as if the blade might clean up nicely. Tim

I own a very similar one, albeit about a century older. The silver on this is in fact quite thick, unlike what you usually see in dha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Puzzles me as to why Maung Po Thein is written in our alphabet and not in native script .

Ian got to this before me.

The British conquered Burma in stages (in the course of the three "Anglo-Burmese Wars"), starting in 1825 with the conquest of the southern delta region, and completing it by 1868. They did keep local administrators in place, generally. At least at first.

Mark · 27th October 2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The only reference I can find on "Maung Po Thein" is a reference to a forced labor villager from Win-ka-na village, Win-yae Township.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs/year...ed%20labor.htm

This is too recent, of course, but it points to it being a family name, rather than a title. My is inscribed to Thado Thiri Min Hla Kaung, by the way (in Burmese script). I haven't been able to find anything of him, either, but "Thado," "Thiri," and I believe even "Kaung" can be titles (there is a similar-sounding word in Thai that is a title), as well as names, and Min Hla is a personal name as well as the name of a town. Peoples "names" changed when their position or status changed, and are often recorded by their titles without any inclusion of their given name. Like everything about dha, it is very confounding.

Battara · 27th October 2005, 10:43 PM

I truly love the silver work, especially the pommel end. I agree with Tim regarding the thinness of the silver sheet over some dha. That is why I have found some of this silver work easily folded, torn, crumpled, etc. It is less than 34 gauge, thicker than aluminum foil, but not by much.

ariel · 27th October 2005, 11:15 PM

Yeah, yeah, I am not a Dha-ologist, I know.
However, I can't see a single torn piece on the scabbard and the repousse is so detailed, with so many different levels of relief that, IMHO, the silver is not very thin. Similar detailing is seen on Kubachi silverwork and it is quite thick. Also, look at the engraving: it is rather deep .
Maybe, this Dha is an exception to the rule.
Sure it is overpriced, but we are not valuating it, are we?

Mark · 28th October 2005, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Yeah, yeah, I am not a Dha-ologist, I know.
However, I can't see a single torn piece on the scabbard and the repousse is so detailed, with so many different levels of relief that, IMHO, the silver is not very thin. Similar detailing is seen on Kubachi silverwork and it is quite thick. Also, look at the engraving: it is rather deep .
Maybe, this Dha is an exception to the rule.
Sure it is overpriced, but we are not valuating it, are we?

I agree with you, Ariel. The silver on this one is substantially thicker than typically seen on dha. As I said, I have a very similar one that has very thick, repouseed silver, as this one does. My avatar, in fact, is a detail of one of the panels from its scabbard.

Here are a few others:

Alam Shah · 28th October 2005, 03:55 AM

Mark, lovely avatar you got there.

Beautiful artwork on the scabbards.
I might be turned from collecting keris to dha...(resisting the temptation).

27th October 2005, 01:36 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yet another Dha I must admit: when a Dha is pretty, it is really beautiful. Look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 The blade needs cleaning and is of yet unknown quality, but the silverwork is outstanding.

27th October 2005, 03:58 PM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	reference? The only reference I can find on "Maung Po Thein" is a reference to a forced labor villager from Win-ka-na village, Win-yae Township. http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs/year...ed%20labor.htm

27th October 2005, 06:14 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Burmese dha with Lao style silver work Nice dha indeed, but the price is over the top by any standards. The style of silver work is in the Lao tradition, with the segmented panels on the scabbard being characteristic of that style. It is still seen today on occasional high end contemporary Lao dha -- I have an example from the 1970s that is similar in style. The presence of English and Burmese inscriptions on the scabbard indicates a Burmese provenance during the period of the British colonial administration which was from the early 1880s to Burmese independence just after WWII. These "distinguished presentation swords" are not very common, are often dated and usually have an inscription about the valor and virtue of the recipient, although this one does not seem to have a date or inscription. The three previous examples I have seen were dated from about 1900 to 1930. Ian.

27th October 2005, 02:24 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	I agree it has very nice silver work on it, as well as the carved ivory. But unless Maung Po Thein is a historical figure of import I think the price is unusually high. I have not had time to look him up yet. Perhaps Andrew, Ian or Mark will have heard of him

27th October 2005, 05:36 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I think it is not just over priced, more ridiculous. I work on a lot of silver objects and I am always puzzled at how sometimes only foil thin silver work, all be it quite pretty but basically very simple can send prices to dizzying heights. The repousse work on this is above average but is not anything that cannot be found on a lot of late 19th century silver jardinieres from Burma and other SE Asian countries. It looks as if the blade might clean up nicely. Tim

27th October 2005, 05:55 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Puzzles me as to why Maung Po Thein is written in our alphabet and not in native script .

27th October 2005, 10:43 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I truly love the silver work, especially the pommel end. I agree with Tim regarding the thinness of the silver sheet over some dha. That is why I have found some of this silver work easily folded, torn, crumpled, etc. It is less than 34 gauge, thicker than aluminum foil, but not by much.

27th October 2005, 11:15 PM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yeah, yeah, I am not a Dha-ologist, I know. However, I can't see a single torn piece on the scabbard and the repousse is so detailed, with so many different levels of relief that, IMHO, the silver is not very thin. Similar detailing is seen on Kubachi silverwork and it is quite thick. Also, look at the engraving: it is rather deep . Maybe, this Dha is an exception to the rule. Sure it is overpriced, but we are not valuating it, are we?

28th October 2005, 03:55 AM	#13
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Mark, lovely avatar you got there. Beautiful artwork on the scabbards. I might be turned from collecting keris to dha...(resisting the temptation).