An Ethno European tool/weapon ... or just weapon

fernando · 8th March 2015, 09:53 PM

This could be considered a tool/weapon but i take it that a couple details in it shows a visible evolution to the weapon status; what they would call in Portugal a 'chuço', a rural weapon used by foot men since medieval times, for which i have no translation better than pike. In this case i would venture giving it a considerable age.
The more noteworthy detail is that the blade is double edged, whereas to my humble knowledge rural tools are typicaly single edged. Actualy some bevel may be noticed, specialy on the straight side.
The other thing is the way the blade is marked; one dot in one side and four dots on the other, a system used many centuries ago.
The handle is also very old, but i wonder if it is a broken stump of a long polearm, as chuços would be; this not rejecting that the purpose was to use it as a hand weapon.
The street fair seller said he left at home another similar example; within a month i will see that he brings it to the fair and then i can look for important differences like the haft length and the blade point.
Just a pity that the previous owner has painted this and other rural objects with aluminum paint, to hang them in a restaurant wall. It was not easy to rub it off.
Blade length 22 cms. plus 11 cms. socket. Total length 57 cms.
Anyone care to comment ?

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VANDOO · 12th March 2015, 07:45 AM

A INTERESTING ITEM. I WOULD THINK IT COULD SERVE AS A TOOL WITH A SHORTER SHAFT AND BLUNT TIP UNTIL IT WAS NEEDED FOR WAR. THEY COULD THEN SHARPEN THE POINT AND PUT ON A LONG SHAFT AND MARCH OFF TO WAR. JUST CONJECTURE

DOES IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS OR BURRIED AT SOME TIME? IT DOES LOOK WEATHERED , OLD AND FULL OF WORM HOLES.

Marcus den toom · 12th March 2015, 09:18 AM

This my dear friend Nando must be the steak knife of Goliath, no doubt

colin henshaw · 12th March 2015, 10:26 AM

An interesting item. Hard to say for sure whether its agricultural or military. I believe some conscripted elements of European armies in the early medieval period, would only be armed with agricultural axes, sythes etc.

Some Roman and Viking period spearheads I've seen have a similar level or corrosion. The hole in the socket for a nail, is a bit unusual...sometimes seen on African spearheads (but it can't be African).

fernando · 12th March 2015, 03:48 PM

Thank you guys,

Yes Barry, it has certainly been exposed to elements and probably also burried or partly burried on the ground of some shed. The level of corrosion is less than that of excavation although is now partly attenuated, due to the exhaustive (steel) brushing to eliminate the aluminum paint that covered it.
And as said, i am anxious to check on the other example the seller promised to bring to the next montlhly fair, to resume some conjectures, like the short handle and the blade tip.

Maybe Goliath has owned it Marcus; and probably it lost its point when he used it as a tooth pick

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You are perfectly right on your assumption Collin;and from those axes and sythes more sophisticated weapons were developed through the need of their modification for battle, like halberds and so.
The hole in the socket is also often seen in Europe. I would bet a fair amount that this thing is Portuguese.
... and has already got a rustic nail.

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8th March 2015, 09:53 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	An Ethno European tool/weapon ... or just weapon This could be considered a tool/weapon but i take it that a couple details in it shows a visible evolution to the weapon status; what they would call in Portugal a 'chuço', a rural weapon used by foot men since medieval times, for which i have no translation better than pike. In this case i would venture giving it a considerable age. The more noteworthy detail is that the blade is double edged, whereas to my humble knowledge rural tools are typicaly single edged. Actualy some bevel may be noticed, specialy on the straight side. The other thing is the way the blade is marked; one dot in one side and four dots on the other, a system used many centuries ago. The handle is also very old, but i wonder if it is a broken stump of a long polearm, as chuços would be; this not rejecting that the purpose was to use it as a hand weapon. The street fair seller said he left at home another similar example; within a month i will see that he brings it to the fair and then i can look for important differences like the haft length and the blade point. Just a pity that the previous owner has painted this and other rural objects with aluminum paint, to hang them in a restaurant wall. It was not easy to rub it off. Blade length 22 cms. plus 11 cms. socket. Total length 57 cms. Anyone care to comment ? . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 9th March 2015 at 07:19 PM. Reason: IMPROVING PICTURES

12th March 2015, 03:48 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you guys, Yes Barry, it has certainly been exposed to elements and probably also burried or partly burried on the ground of some shed. The level of corrosion is less than that of excavation although is now partly attenuated, due to the exhaustive (steel) brushing to eliminate the aluminum paint that covered it. And as said, i am anxious to check on the other example the seller promised to bring to the next montlhly fair, to resume some conjectures, like the short handle and the blade tip. Maybe Goliath has owned it Marcus; and probably it lost its point when he used it as a tooth pick . You are perfectly right on your assumption Collin;and from those axes and sythes more sophisticated weapons were developed through the need of their modification for battle, like halberds and so. The hole in the socket is also often seen in Europe. I would bet a fair amount that this thing is Portuguese. ... and has already got a rustic nail. . Attached Images

12th March 2015, 07:45 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A INTERESTING ITEM. I WOULD THINK IT COULD SERVE AS A TOOL WITH A SHORTER SHAFT AND BLUNT TIP UNTIL IT WAS NEEDED FOR WAR. THEY COULD THEN SHARPEN THE POINT AND PUT ON A LONG SHAFT AND MARCH OFF TO WAR. JUST CONJECTURE DOES IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS OR BURRIED AT SOME TIME? IT DOES LOOK WEATHERED , OLD AND FULL OF WORM HOLES.

12th March 2015, 09:18 AM	#3
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	This my dear friend Nando must be the steak knife of Goliath, no doubt

12th March 2015, 10:26 AM	#4
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	An interesting item. Hard to say for sure whether its agricultural or military. I believe some conscripted elements of European armies in the early medieval period, would only be armed with agricultural axes, sythes etc. Some Roman and Viking period spearheads I've seen have a similar level or corrosion. The hole in the socket for a nail, is a bit unusual...sometimes seen on African spearheads (but it can't be African).