Old postcard with two dancers/warriors....

Maurice · 11th November 2010, 10:46 PM

Anybody interested in discussing this old postcard that was for auction a while ago?

(P.S. it had been sold already, and it isn't mine...)

The right sword looks like a kampilan to me, and the two people that are depicted are not looking like moro's....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Mytribalworld · 11th November 2010, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Anybody interested in discussing this old postcard that was for auction a while ago?

(P.S. it had been sold already, and it isn't mine...)

The right sword looks like a kampilan to me, and the two people that are depicted are not looking like moro's....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Hi Maurice,

I vote for the north part of Celebes, the spear looks like that. combined with the kampilan it should be possible.

regards,

Arjan

OOh and about old postcards,..... here another one

Maurice · 11th November 2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Hi Maurice,

I vote for the north part of Celebes, the spear looks like that. combined with the kampilan it should be possible.

regards,

Arjan

OOh and about old postcards,..... here another one

Hi Arjan,

Thank you for your input!
I am pretty sure you hit the nail right on the head...

P.S. It looks like your old postcard had been removed???
I have added it in my "head" map on my computer when it was still there...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Gavin Nugent · 11th November 2010, 11:23 PM

Good post Maurice and good thoughts too, I too saw this when searching for another Moro Spear...yes I am sure we all are :-)).

I have an interest in old post cards depicting people with weaponry though I do refuse to pay the high prices many are asking for them. These cards are, even if staged for the photographer, a great insight in to times past and usually offer a good representation of how things once were and in turn helps our study and understanding of the things we collect.

Gav

Maurice · 11th November 2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Good post Maurice and good thoughts too, I too saw this when searching for another Moro Spear...yes I am sure we all are :-)).

I have an interest in old post cards depicting people with weaponry though I do refuse to pay the high prices many are asking for them. These cards are, even if staged for the photographer, a great insight in to times past and usually offer a good representation of how things once were and in turn helps our study and understanding of the things we collect.

Gav

Hi Gav,

Prices of old postcards can rise very high, but this one didn't get out for that high.
I like old images and old postcards, indeed for the reason you mention.

And this one puzzled me a bit, but after Arjan's comment all pieces of the puzzle fall in place...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Gavin Nugent · 12th November 2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Gav,

Prices of old postcards can rise very high, but this one didn't get out for that high.
I like old images and old postcards, indeed for the reason you mention.

And this one puzzled me a bit, but after Arjan's comment all pieces of the puzzle fall in place...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Indeed Arjan's knowledge base, references and resources are invaluable, thanks Arjan ;-)

Gav

asomotif · 12th November 2010, 07:51 AM

Interesting postcard Maurice.

I have a spear exactly as the one in the picture. A fellow collector already indicated years ago that this spear is from Celebes / Sulawesi.
But nice to see this confirmed by this picture and Arjans comments.

Best regards,
Willem

Mytribalworld · 12th November 2010, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Arjan,

Thank you for your input!
I am pretty sure you hit the nail right on the head...

P.S. It looks like your old postcard had been removed???
I have added it in my "head" map on my computer when it was still there...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Hi Maurice,

no actually i removed it myself because I though it could disturb the discusion of the main subject. but now you asked for it,,, here it is again...

Atlantia · 12th November 2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Hi Maurice,

no actually i removed it myself because I though it could disturb the discusion of the main subject. but now you asked for it,,, here it is again...

Well it certainly disturbed my lunch.

Maurice · 13th November 2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Well it certainly disturbed my lunch.

The blades we collect were not used to put butter on the bread!

Atlantia · 13th November 2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

The blades we collect were not used to put butter on the bread!

Hardly the same thing now is it?
Our blades don't come with a photobook of their 'exploits'.

Maurice · 13th November 2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hardly the same thing now is it?
Our blades don't come with a photobook of their 'exploits'.

Indeed hardly the same thing, but I was responding to your comment concerning the lunch thing. And butter has to do with lunch, is it not?

Because I deepen a bit in dayak culture, I probably look at different eyes to this image as you do.

Maybe it is better to wait with your lunch after looking at the vikingsword forum?

Regards,
Maurice

Atlantia · 13th November 2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Indeed hardly the same thing, but I was responding to your comment concerning the lunch thing. And butter has to do with lunch, is it not?

Because I deepen a bit in dayak culture, I probably look at different eyes to this image as you do.

Maybe it is better to wait with your lunch after looking at the vikingsword forum?

Regards,
Maurice

No, you are absolutely right Maurice.
I'm not trying to make an issue out of this Maurice. I would hate to offend you in any way.
The image was a bit 'sudden' for me though. I found it a little shocking after the rather nice staged first image.
I'm aware some people collect head-hunter stuff. But even a discussion of Igorot axes is a world away from pictures of severed heads.
IMHO we should link to pictures of a graphic nature rather than put them in threads.
Sorry if that seems sensitive, I see dead people every day at work, that's enough.

Peace my friend.
Gene

Maurice · 13th November 2010, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

No, you are absolutely right Maurice.
I'm not trying to make an issue out of this Maurice. I would hate to offend you in any way.
The image was a bit 'sudden' for me though. I found it a little shocking after the rather nice staged first image.
I'm aware some people collect head-hunter stuff. But even a discussion of Igorot axes is a world away from pictures of severed heads.
IMHO we should link to pictures of a graphic nature rather than put them in threads.
Sorry if that seems sensitive, I see dead people every day at work, that's enough.

Peace my friend.
Gene

Gene,

I am not thinking you are making an issue out of it, and I am neither making an issue out of it and am sorry if it seemed like I do in my former posting.
I think I expressed it wrong what I meant.

I can understand the image can fall hard on an empty stomach to people.
But I have read a lot of dayaks and their customs, and therefore also of headhunting. And I think I have seen a lot of skulls on images in books, museums and even also in private collections, that I might became immune of these kind of images, and think they are interesting and fascinating, not because of the severed heads, but because of the reflection of headhunting and what it was all about.
I have seen images much worse and also made in present days, where people where killed because of aggression or evil persons, and not because the "adat" tells them to do so..

Regards,
Maurice

Atlantia · 13th November 2010, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Gene,

I am not thinking you are making an issue out of it, and I am neither making an issue out of it and am sorry if it seemed like I do in my former posting.
I think I expressed it wrong what I meant.

I can understand the image can fall hard on an empty stomach to people.
But I have read a lot of dayaks and their customs, and therefore also of headhunting. And I think I have seen a lot of skulls on images in books, museums and even also in private collections, that I might became immune of these kind of images, and think they are interesting and fascinating, not because of the severed heads, but because of the reflection of headhunting and what it was all about.
I have seen images much worse and also made in present days, where people where killed because of aggression or evil persons, and not because the "adat" tells them to do so..

Regards,
Maurice

Your points are well made maurice.
Thank you for explaining them. You have a not offended me my friend, I am glad I have not offended you.

Best
Gene

Maurice · 13th November 2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Your points are well made maurice.
Thank you for explaining them. You have a not offended me my friend, I am glad I have not offended you.

Best
Gene

Hi Gene,

It takes a lot more to get me offended, and I am happy you aren't also.
Here another image, to keep up the good spirit, which I am sure you like a lot more.

It is a very old image, made around 1870, and also from Celebes.
It is a warrior of Manado (watch the spear)....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Maurice · 13th November 2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

I have a spear exactly as the one in the picture.

Hi Willem,

Do you mind posting a picture in this thread?
Kai also has one in his collection (well, he did a few years ago and I don't know if he still has it).

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Mytribalworld · 13th November 2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Gene,

It takes a lot more to get me offended, and I am happy you aren't also.
Here another image, to keep up the good spirit, which I am sure you like a lot more.

It is a very old image, made around 1870, and also from Celebes.
It is a warrior of Manado (watch the spear)....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Hi Maurice,

what is the original decription of the image?

Mandao means that it could be a Minahassan warrior.
his hat shows also like that.
not that he is likely not used how to handle the shield course he held it upsidedown, so I think it can also be a studio photo.

regards,

Arjan

Atlantia · 13th November 2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Gene,

It takes a lot more to get me offended, and I am happy you aren't also.
Here another image, to keep up the good spirit, which I am sure you like a lot more.

It is a very old image, made around 1870, and also from Celebes.
It is a warrior of Manado (watch the spear)....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Thats a fantastic picture! What a grand gentleman he is.

Maurice · 13th November 2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Hi Maurice,

what is the original decription of the image?

Mandao means that it could be a Minahassan warrior.
his hat shows also like that.
not that he is likely not used how to handle the shield course he held it upsidedown, so I think it can also be a studio photo.

regards,

Arjan

Hi Arjan ,

The original description is as following: "De eerste voorvechter van Manado."
It is an image of Woodbury and Page, ca. 1870.
I think you are right about the studio photo, because the man is standing in front of a white cloth...

According to wikipedia "Manado", in colonial period called "Menado", is the capital city of "Sulawesi Utara (northern province), on Sulawesi island.

Kind Regards,
Maurice

asomotif · 14th November 2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Do you mind posting a picture in this thread?

Pfew, I don't mind, but spears are terrible to take pictures of.

VANDOO · 14th November 2010, 04:06 AM

COOL LOOKING SPEAR IT REMINDS ME MOST OF THE SPEARS WITH HAIR THE NAGA USE. THE USE OF HAIR ON KAMPILIANS AND QUITE A FEW SWORDS FROM THE REGION COME TO MIND TOO. HERE ARE A FEW OLD PICTURES FROM CELEBES, CERAM, TORAJA, AND PERHAPS BORNEO. AND A PICTURE OF A DAYAK ORANG ULU CEREMONIAL HAT PERHAPS SIMULAR TO SOME IN SOME PICTURES WITHOUT ANY FEATHERS ? ENJOY

Maurice · 14th November 2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Pfew, I don't mind, but spears are terrible to take pictures of.

Very nice spear: Thanks for posting the image Willem!

asomotif · 14th November 2010, 11:57 PM

I found quite a lot of Sulawesi lances on the RMV website.
Here are some examples that are similar to the one on the postcard.

11th November 2010, 10:46 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Old postcard with two dancers/warriors.... Anybody interested in discussing this old postcard that was for auction a while ago? (P.S. it had been sold already, and it isn't mine...) The right sword looks like a kampilan to me, and the two people that are depicted are not looking like moro's.... Kind Regards, Maurice Attached Images

11th November 2010, 11:23 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice one Good post Maurice and good thoughts too, I too saw this when searching for another Moro Spear...yes I am sure we all are :-)). I have an interest in old post cards depicting people with weaponry though I do refuse to pay the high prices many are asking for them. These cards are, even if staged for the photographer, a great insight in to times past and usually offer a good representation of how things once were and in turn helps our study and understanding of the things we collect. Gav

12th November 2010, 07:51 AM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Interesting postcard Maurice. I have a spear exactly as the one in the picture. A fellow collector already indicated years ago that this spear is from Celebes / Sulawesi. But nice to see this confirmed by this picture and Arjans comments. Best regards, Willem Last edited by asomotif; 12th November 2010 at 01:35 PM.

14th November 2010, 04:06 AM	#22
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	COOL LOOKING SPEAR IT REMINDS ME MOST OF THE SPEARS WITH HAIR THE NAGA USE. THE USE OF HAIR ON KAMPILIANS AND QUITE A FEW SWORDS FROM THE REGION COME TO MIND TOO. HERE ARE A FEW OLD PICTURES FROM CELEBES, CERAM, TORAJA, AND PERHAPS BORNEO. AND A PICTURE OF A DAYAK ORANG ULU CEREMONIAL HAT PERHAPS SIMULAR TO SOME IN SOME PICTURES WITHOUT ANY FEATHERS ? ENJOY Attached Images

14th November 2010, 11:57 PM	#24
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I found quite a lot of Sulawesi lances on the RMV website. Here are some examples that are similar to the one on the postcard. Attached Images