Chillanum

[mahratt]

Dear Forumites,
Allow me to introduce myself: my name is Dmitry and I am from Russia. I am particularly interested in the weapons from India/Iran as well as from their immediate neighbors. I'd like to show you this dagger: IMHO, Chillanum. I would date it to mid/end 18th century and attribute it to South India. I'd very much like to get your opinions.
Thanks in advance.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Dear Forumites,
Allow me to introduce myself: my name is Dmitry and I am from Russia. I am particularly interested in the weapons from India/Iran as well as from their immediate neighbors. I'd like to show you this dagger: IMHO, Chillanum. I would date it to mid/end 18th century and attribute it to South India. I'd very much like to get your opinions.
Thanks in advance.

Whilst I can not with conviction accurately comment on this piece I would like to welcome to the community Dmitry.
I like the delicate and slender lines that this dagger has, thank you for sharing.

Gavin

[Dom]

Hi "mahratt"
you 'r welcome
India weapons it's not too much my field my comments will be what I found in my doc
your "Chilanum" seems more 17th than 18th century, or in middle of both, this was a favorite dagger of the Marathas of West/Central India
and, I love the elegant shape of the blade
hope so that you will have more things to share with us

à +

Dom

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Dmitry and welcome to the forum.

Yes, you have a chilanum, and I agree with Dom that it is 17th century, but I would find it safer to say Deccan.

In the Junagarh Fort in Bikaner, you can find quite a number of chilanums and other weapons, some marked with the Bikaner dot marking – but they origin from Adoni in Deccan. Here is the story. The reason for all this weapons from Adoni can be read below.

The Art and Architecture of Bikaner State by Hermann Goetz, 46-47.

Anup Singh [Maharaja of Bikaner] went back to Deccan, and for the next forty years fought in all the endless campaigns there. In 1681 he was commander of Aurangabad, the provincial capital of Deccan; in the next year he fought the Marathas near Satara, Padan Singh had already in 1674 been serious wounded in an encounter with them in Tapti and had been killed in 1682. In 1686 the raja took part in the last siege and capture of Bijapur, the capital of the Adilshahi kingdom, and was raised to the rank of mansabdar of 5,000. In 1687 he led the decisive assult on the fort of Golconda, the capital of the Qutb Shahi kings, and was made maharaja. He then played a prominent role in the pacification of the Carnatic. In 1689 he took Adoni, the residence of Sidi mas’ud, the former regent and last defender of that part of the Adilshahi state which lay in the south between Hyderabad and Mysore; in 1690 he took Sunker. His last years he spent as governor of Adoni and he died there in 1698.

[Jim McDougall]

Welcome to our forums Dmitry, and I must say you've made an impressive entrance here with the presentation of this beautiful chilanum, one of the fascinating and less often discussed weapons in the Indian armoury.

I completely agree with Jens and Dom in the 17th century assessment, well supported with the great detail Jens has added regarding Bikaner, which stands as one of the defining benchmarks in studying the weapons of India.
With many forms of ethnographic weapons, and the fact that they remained in use for such long periods, with the added complication of many revival type versions, it is understandable that many scholars are inclined to stay to the conservative side in dating them. Naturally India is very much a case in point, and adds very much to the intrigue in studying thier weapons.

I would say you have struck a chord here with this beauty! and I really look forward to further discussion on this and the chilanum form itself. The long slender blade is certainly different than examples we are familiar with, and it is interesting to note the structural shape of the hilt to swords of the period.
The recurve and profile of these blades recall of course the pesh kabz of the northern regions, and here we have again established the connections between those areas and the Deccan, clearly affecting the weapon styles.

All best regards,
Jim

[Jens Nordlunde]

Here is a picture of Anup Singhji - should you be interested.

[mahratt]

Many thanks for your comments. Special thanks to to Jim and Jens.
I shall continue posting items from my modest collection.
Dmitry

[Gavin Nugent]

Further notes,

Whilst researching another piece I have found a very similar example, although the blade is broader, on page 212 of 'The Arts of the Muslim Knight'.

In support of What Jens has noted, the passage also notes this a Deccan and most likely booty taken in 1689 when the fortress of Adoni fell to the Mughal general Rustam Khan.

Gav

[Jens Nordlunde]

In ’The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Knives and Bayonets’, one is shown on page 232, it is dated 17th century. This one is decorated in gold, which is rather unusual, and the author suggests that the decoration may have been added later, as all the others are without any decoration, other than chiselled work, mostly of a very high quality.

In 'The Arts of the Muslim Knight', another one is shown on page 214. It’s the same age as the one on page 212.

The blades can be narrow or broad, with two fullers or more, and sometimes with none, but the blade form and the hilt are very easy to spot.

[Jim McDougall]

It seems I have been spellbound by this chilanum, and it has reawakened a long standing fascination with this interesting dagger form. Jens' excellent and concise detail concerning Anup Singh, the Maharajah of Bikaner (thank you for the illustration Jens!) led me to revisit "Hindu Arms and Ritual" by Robert Elgood. This reference I cannot emphasize enough in understanding the weaponry of India, and it is important to realize that regardless of the denominator in title, these weapons must be considered comprehensively, just as Elgood brilliantly illustrates. There is far too much geopolitical flux and diffusion of style and all other influences throughout this magnificent history to effectively confine weapons types and styles regionally. We can however offer speculations based on what we know of this history, and feel at least some sense of plausibility in many cases.

The chilanum as a 'style' is recorded as early as the Bijapur manuscript 'Nujum al Alam' (1570) and has been noted, many of these were captured at the seige of Adoni in 1689, where these weapons along with a host of others were returned to Bikaner. Here in the armoury at Junagarh Fort, a profound selection of examples of arms and armor of Vijayanagara style (the empire from 1350-1565) and Deccani forms have presented an excellent benchmark for the study of these weapons.

Dmitrys example here, as we have noted, is most probably of 17th century, and the hilt style seems to correspond to the khanda hilts of early 17th century. The hilts of these 'chilanum' seem widely varied, but one that I most commonly think of is the nearly anthromorphic styling seen with the pommel in a sort of 'winged' shape with the guard in a splayed corresponding form. I have often thought that this interesting style hilt recalled the ancient type hilts from the LaTene culture, where many of the foundations of Celtic art can be found. The antennae style pommel projections on earlier hilts , and the other anthromorphic styles of a figure with outstretched arms and the legs forming the crossguard seem tempting to consider in association with some of these chilanum hilts. Naturally academic caution seems to have prevented the actual presentation of such free association in most references or discussions as there is clearly no supportable line of development, but I have long had these thoughts so make note here.
In looking at these hilts in profile, there also remains the possibility of viewing them in a floral sense as well, with the pommel knob being a bud instead of a head, and the 'arms' being petals.

In looking at other variations of hilts on these daggers, some are with the closed hilt and knuckleguard while others are open hilt. Some of these have a lunette style pommel, which developed on the recurved blade khanjharli daggers, and it should be noted is present on the 16th century sword hilts of Persian form with drooping quillons. This same style hilt (also with baluster grip) is considered Deccani and appears later in Afghan regions on the sabres we know as paluoar in the langet and drooping quillons, though the pommel is cupped, recalling again certain influence of the khanda.

It seems the connection between Afghanistan and the Deccan has been long established, and the nuances of Mahratta influence is seen incorporated into many of these hilt elements. While the chilanum is often noted as a favored weapon of the Mahrattas, here we see it was also well known in Mughal weaponry as well as early as the Vijayanagara Empire in the south. A number of examples also are similar to the daggers of the northwestern regions of the Kalash (also known as Kafirs), which are often found in number in Nepal.

For me, after spending some time researching the history surrounding this particular dagger style, as always, I see the weapon itself serving as a guide through history and wonderful visions in perspective of the times from which it came.

Best regards,
Jim


Added the map of India where Adoni is shown.
A group of chilanum from Christies in 1998...the hilts with the straight H type form are those known as katara and attributed to the Kafirs (now Kalash tribal groups of Chitral) but often found in Nepal as well.

[Jim McDougall]

Before this thread takes its place in the 'archives' I'd like to thank Gav, Dom and Jens for responding here, and hope that Dmitry will continue posting items for discussion. Although there are a few of us who will spend time researching and offer observations and notes, it is good to see that the lurkers are getting some helpful information
With our small cadre of responders here came in with 9 posts, look at the lurking tally.....423 views so far!!!!

While surprised that our lurking community has so little to offer as far as contributions, comments or examples on these interesting daggers, it is clear the interest is there, so I hope the thread will serve well to those who use the search feature.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Jim is right; it is a bit strange that so few respond, and that there are so many lurkers.

Here is one of mine. The hilt is decorated in a geometrical dot pattern, and the blade nicely watered.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Jim is right; it is a bit strange that so few respond, and that there are so many lurkers.

Here is one of mine. The hilt is decorated in a geometrical dot pattern, and the blade nicely watered.

Gents, stranger still no one else has taken the time to welcome a new member considering there is a vast interest from 'active' members regarding early Indian weaponry. Not very encouraging stuff.
As for lurkers, there is not much you can do about them, god bless them for putting the forum in the radar though, the more hits the more exposure for the forum.

Gav

[Jens Nordlunde]

Funny thing you write Gav, as both Jim and I have welcomed the new member, but he has been very quiet. So I don't quite understand your mail.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Funny thing you write Gav, as both Jim and I have welcomed the new member, but he has been very quiet. So I don't quite understand your mail.

Marhatt, for the benefit of those who have never held such an old piece, could you please share dimensions, weights points of balance etc, I know I am interested in hearing more.

Jens, I'll send you a PM.

Gav

[mahratt]

[QUOTE = флибустьер] Marhatt, на благо тех, кто никогда не было такой старой части, не могли бы Вы, пожалуйста, поделиться размеры, вес точки баланса и т.д., я знаю, что интересно узнать больше.

Jens, я пришлю вам PM.

Гав [/] QUOTE

I am sorry for silence in theme Cillanum. To my shame I do not know English language. Only German. Therefore to me with transfer kindly helps Ariel. But, it is not convenient to me to disturb him often. Now I translate in translit and is not assured that all will be correctly translated. Once again I apologise.
Cillanum my familiar photographer now photographs. As soon as it will be at me, I will inform the participant of a forum its sizes. And any other parametres which will interest

[Jens Nordlunde]

Let's take it easy from here.
It is very nice of Ariel to help out by translating from Russian, but if you write in German I may be able to translate it into English, and I am sure several of the members do read German :-).
Jens

[Kurt]

Hi Mahratt ,

Some species from my collection.

Regards
Kurt

[mahratt]

Thanks of Kurt! They - are fine! Very much it are pleasant to me. I while have one more cillanum. I necessarily will show its photo.

[mahratt]

Length the general - 40 sm, length of a blade - 27,5 sm

[lionzden]

congratulations, very nice

[Jens Nordlunde]

Interesting pieces you show Kurt, please comment on them, age, origin, size and so.
Jens

[Kurt]

Hi Jens,
beginning with No. 1
I suspect Deccan in 1600???
Inserted handle iron with silver.
Heavy blade wootz.
Total length 41 cm.
Blade 28.5 cm.
Weight 648 grams
Regards
Kurt

[Kurt]

Here are two more photos !
Kurt

[lionzden]

closeup images look great, i'd be first in line if you wanted to sell

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Kurt,
Great picture, and a very nice chilanum, and thank you for commenting.
I agree with you in your comments, but I doubt that it is from the beginning of 1600. Anyway it is old and very nice.
Jens

[Kurt]

Hi Jens,
Here is No. 2
Suspect 17th century.
Can you tell me from which Indian area?
Made from one piece of steel.
No wootz.
Total length 41 cm.
Blade 32 cm.
Weight 395 grams
Regards
Kurt

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Kurt,

Once again excellent pictures, of a very nice dagger. 17th century sounds like a safe guess, and it is from Deccan – but you knew that already, didn’t you?

Jens

[Kurt]

Hi Jens,
Here is No. 3
Also 17th century ?
Suspect Deccan
Made from one piece of steel.
No wootz.
Total length 38 cm.
Blade 28,5 cm.
Weight 310 grams
Regards
Kurt

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Kurt,
Yes, 17th or early 18th century, and I agree with Deccan.
Again very nice pictures. Did you clean the daggers yourself, or were they cleaned when you got them?
Jens