FALSE TOWER OR BROWN BESS

Fernando K · 24th March 2018, 03:31 PM

Here in Argentina, in a Historical Museum, is a musket of smooth anima that at first sight seems to be regulation of the English forces. But looking closely, it is known that it is a Belgian reproduction of the time, produced around 1810.

On the plate of the lock, there is the familiar word TOWER the royal crown with the number GR, but also, above the crown, a letter W crowned, which does not correspond to the English models, and an arrow, under the bread which aims to imitate the "broad arrow", which indicates ownership of the Crown.

In the barrel, the ELG punch of the Liege Test Bench, and two false punches intended to imitate the English: a test punch of the Tower, but placed inverted, two scepters crossed and crowned, and a punch with GR crowned and the broad arrow, which indicates ownership of the Crown. But placed inversely, the test punch of the Tower was placed first, closer to the end of the barrel and on this the punch of real property.

In the lower part of the barrel, near the ear, the initials HM or WM.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Fernando K · 24th March 2018, 03:40 PM

Another image

thinreadline · 25th March 2018, 01:29 AM

Yes , to me the crown does not look like a typical British crown of the Georgian period , it looks like a European one ...and the TOWER & GR appear to have been added later and stamped much deeper

corrado26 · 25th March 2018, 02:32 PM

This crown with five bows in difference to the British crown could be the crown of Jamaika in the British West Indies under George III. of Great Britain 1760-1820. At least is such a crown with GR shown in a German book that only deals with monograms "Flämig, Monogramme auf Münzen, Medaillen, Marken, Zeichen und Urkunden".
corrado26

Pukka Bundook · 26th March 2018, 02:19 PM

In the early 19th Century, Great Britain was short of muskets to counter the "Invasion threat" from France, so did purchase so many thousand muskets from Belgium, made to the India Pattern I believe.
I am far from any books on this, and am poor at keeping it all in my head, but the above musket may well be one of these.

It looks well built and a good arm.
Sorry this is vague... Will come back with more details when I get at it.

Richard.

Fernando K · 26th March 2018, 03:20 PM

Hello

I differ with the above. If it were a regulation weapon, manufactured in Belgium, and imported for the military forces of the Empire, it would have the legitimate proofs, the authentic "broad arrow".

It is well known that England imported the lock and the barrel, which were tested in the Tower, and they were stamped with the test punch, two scepters crossed and crowned, and the stock was built in England, in the Minories.

This specimen was acquired in some time by Argentina, and in other museums there are other specimens, of different models, for direct purchases or contraband.

Here it has been mentioned that the inscriptions in the lock seem stamped later, I do not believe it, because the keys, in any case, were bought stamped, and the only thing that was added was the property punch of the Crown, once the lock had been acquired

Affectionately.

Panoleon · 28th March 2018, 03:52 PM

Hello,

I am pretty sure the crowned W is a Dutch mark. Between 1813 and 1815 the Dutch were in need of muskets en pistols and they bought a lot of British material. There are also British flintlock pistols made in Liege with Dutch markings.

Fernando K · 28th March 2018, 07:57 PM

Hello

In this matter, any opinion must be based on the photographs of existence of demonstrative specimens.

Affectionately

24th March 2018, 03:31 PM	#1
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	FALSE TOWER OR BROWN BESS Here in Argentina, in a Historical Museum, is a musket of smooth anima that at first sight seems to be regulation of the English forces. But looking closely, it is known that it is a Belgian reproduction of the time, produced around 1810. On the plate of the lock, there is the familiar word TOWER the royal crown with the number GR, but also, above the crown, a letter W crowned, which does not correspond to the English models, and an arrow, under the bread which aims to imitate the "broad arrow", which indicates ownership of the Crown. In the barrel, the ELG punch of the Liege Test Bench, and two false punches intended to imitate the English: a test punch of the Tower, but placed inverted, two scepters crossed and crowned, and a punch with GR crowned and the broad arrow, which indicates ownership of the Crown. But placed inversely, the test punch of the Tower was placed first, closer to the end of the barrel and on this the punch of real property. In the lower part of the barrel, near the ear, the initials HM or WM. Affectionately. Fernando K Attached Images

24th March 2018, 03:40 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Another image Attached Images

25th March 2018, 01:29 AM	#3
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Yes , to me the crown does not look like a typical British crown of the Georgian period , it looks like a European one ...and the TOWER & GR appear to have been added later and stamped much deeper

25th March 2018, 02:32 PM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	This crown with five bows in difference to the British crown could be the crown of Jamaika in the British West Indies under George III. of Great Britain 1760-1820. At least is such a crown with GR shown in a German book that only deals with monograms "Flämig, Monogramme auf Münzen, Medaillen, Marken, Zeichen und Urkunden". corrado26

26th March 2018, 02:19 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	In the early 19th Century, Great Britain was short of muskets to counter the "Invasion threat" from France, so did purchase so many thousand muskets from Belgium, made to the India Pattern I believe. I am far from any books on this, and am poor at keeping it all in my head, but the above musket may well be one of these. It looks well built and a good arm. Sorry this is vague... Will come back with more details when I get at it. Richard.

26th March 2018, 03:20 PM	#6
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello I differ with the above. If it were a regulation weapon, manufactured in Belgium, and imported for the military forces of the Empire, it would have the legitimate proofs, the authentic "broad arrow". It is well known that England imported the lock and the barrel, which were tested in the Tower, and they were stamped with the test punch, two scepters crossed and crowned, and the stock was built in England, in the Minories. This specimen was acquired in some time by Argentina, and in other museums there are other specimens, of different models, for direct purchases or contraband. Here it has been mentioned that the inscriptions in the lock seem stamped later, I do not believe it, because the keys, in any case, were bought stamped, and the only thing that was added was the property punch of the Crown, once the lock had been acquired Affectionately.

28th March 2018, 03:52 PM	#7
Panoleon Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 30	Hello, I am pretty sure the crowned W is a Dutch mark. Between 1813 and 1815 the Dutch were in need of muskets en pistols and they bought a lot of British material. There are also British flintlock pistols made in Liege with Dutch markings.

28th March 2018, 07:57 PM	#8
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello In this matter, any opinion must be based on the photographs of existence of demonstrative specimens. Affectionately