Renaissance style stiletto

[Wodimi]

Dear Gentlemen,
normal I collect ethnographic weapons from Africa, Now it happens that I picked up a strange dagger. It is definitely from Mahdist warriors, but only modified from those guys. Mahdist's nor other groups in that region had made such handles.....they simply covered crossguard and handle complete very careful with lizard skin, but it seems the Mahdist only modified this dagger with the skin, will say the handle have still the original form, which is Renaissance style in my eye. I checked the handle with a magnet, it's iron, only the thicker part in the middle not, maybe a broce or leather or wood. The crossgard is not magnetic, maybe brass. So the magnetic on the handle is not so strong as on the blade, it could be that it is such a in one-piece cast metal handle and so the magnet react only on the angle under the cast/wood handle and only on the top of the knob you have again strong magnetic.
The blade have extreme good quality and is for sure European, could be a Renaissance dagger. The reverse side of the blade is total flat. The blade is on the front not really triagle, a bit hollowed.
I would be happy, if somebody from you knows more about this sort of dagger.
Thanks
Wolf

[A Senefelder]

The triangular " hollow ground " blade is typical of European small sword blades of the 18th and earlier 19th century.

The blade is on the front not really triagle, a bit hollowed.

Hollow grinding is a technique where the faces of the blade are ground into the hollowed shape you referenced allow the blade weight to be reduced by removing mass whilst the blade is strengthened by the geometry of introducing curves into the sides/faces of the blade making it stiffer. This technique became quite common during the 14th century as plate armour became better and increasingly frequent.

I'd say theres a chance that this is a cut down smallsword blade. This doesn't rule out a complete European origin, converting broken small sword blades into " new " dagger wasn't uncommon in Europe.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
I'm wondering if this knife has been made from some type of socket bayonet.
Lots of late 18thC and 19thC European bayonets were of triangular form and some, if I remember correctly, had hollow ground and flat sides.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Wolf, and thank you for sharing this interesting dagger. Actually, as Norman has observed, many edged weapons in North Africa were fashioned from bayonet blades. In this case, this seems to be to possibly be a Martini Henry socket bayonet, probably of 1853/71 pattern. The British had equipped much of the Egyptian army with these rifles during the campaigns with the Mahdists, and many of these weapons were captured in several of the early battles by the Mahdist forces.

Apparantly many of these early Martini Henry rifles remained with the Egyptian Camel Corps and Infantry even into the 20th century, so these bayonets certainly may have become used by tribesmen for use in daggers even beyond the Mahdist campaigns. The hilt is covered with the skin of a waran lizard it appears.

[Wodimi]

thanks to all, I did't know that older bayonets had such blades. But for me it's still a riddle. If fashioned from a bayonet blade, why create the Mahdists such a handle in this shape and with a crossguard....it's total unnormal.

[colin henshaw]

Hi

With the European-style hilt and crocodile or lizard sheath, with claws etc (to create an exotic look), I think this falls into the category of Sudanese objects made post Anglo-Egyptian conquest (1898), for sale to Europeans. It could also be a commission from a European military person/administrator to a Sudanese artisan, for a curio or souvenir.

Regards.

[Wodimi]

Yes Colin, all is possible.
Thanks

[Jim McDougall]

Actually through all the colonial activity in particular, as well as the trade from Europe which extends well into antiquity, tribal awareness of styles and forms from these weapons is understandable. Many tribal weapons are fashioned after European forms, and often bayonets were used for daggers much the way that trade blades enabled the production of swords.These of course another weapon well adopted from both European and Middle East arms.
In Morocco the so called 'Zanzibar' swords discussed here years ago, are the Moriccan s'boula daggers which are often found with French bayonets. In the Sahara, Sudan and many tribal areas little is ever discarded, and blades of any kind can be recycled and remounted countless times over generations.

While it is always tempting to classify any amomaly or unusual variant from these regions as 'commercially oriented', it must be remembered that these native weapons are not fashioned from a regulation pattern book. There were countless self styled artisans who created thier own weapons in the field, and the use of these hides including many crocodile types are known to have been favored by warriors during the Mahdist uprisings which the potent totemic value presumably imbued.

This one seems to have some good genuine age with the deterioration in the pommel under the hide, and I think this puts it quite plausibly in the Mahdist period. I must confess at first I thought it might be a 'creative' item as suggested for the burgeoning tourist market of the occupation, but second thoughts make me feel differently.

[Wodimi]

it came together with this more common and known ceremonial dagger, what let me think thar there must be some age.

[Jim McDougall]

good observation, note the thuluth.

[zalmoxis]

I think this is a late 17th century early 18th century dagger.
You are right about the shape and being modified just adding the skin.
Looking at the blade it does not seem to have been modified from a small sword.
Second half of the 17th century had all kind of pillow swords and parring daggers with smaller cross guards.
But is just me I could be wrong.

[Wodimi]

I'm not longer sure zalmoxis, I think Jim with his Martini Henry socket bayonet is right. I checked it and indeed such bayonets have the same shape :-(