Help to identify keris blade

VVV · 10th June 2011, 09:47 PM

Who could tell me some more about the blade of this keris?

Michael

Gustav · 10th June 2011, 10:08 PM

Could be a Pattani blade, judging from the shape of luk and especially last luk. Somewhere between a Carita and Malela blade.

Here a similar size of greneng (not so often (?) on a Peninsular blade);

and similar solution of gandhik/gonjo (possibly Terengganu).

Striking, how similar are some features of Peninsular keris sometimes to Bali/Lombok keris (this example of course beeing havily Bugis influenced), again Kembang Kacang/Gandhik/Gonjo area.

BluErf · 11th June 2011, 02:23 AM

Hi Michael,

Could you post a dead-on shot of the sheath, with the hilt turned to the right please?

Thanks!

VVV · 11th June 2011, 08:37 AM

Thanks Gustav for the reference examples.
Kai Wee, the hilt is still stuck so that's the reason why it's fixed on the pictures.
Here is a close up of the scabbard and hilt from the front.

Michael

BluErf · 11th June 2011, 01:25 PM

Hi Michael,

Ok sure. It'd be great you could give me a shot of the side profile of the hilt.

My first instinct was that the keris is Terengganu. The sheath doesn't have the awkward Pattani look. The blade itself too, does not strike me as Pattani.

Gustav · 11th June 2011, 01:58 PM

Kai Wee,

I thought it would be Pattani just becouse the luks seemed static and lacking the "sweet" flow of Terengganu blades to me. Could they bee simply the smiths hallmarks?

Is the batang to broad to be Pattani?

Regards,
Gustav

VVV · 11th June 2011, 06:06 PM

Here are two additional pictures of the hilt.
I am not at home this weekend and this is the closest I had in my computer of it.

Michael

BluErf · 12th June 2011, 01:23 AM

Hi Michael,

Thanks. Good observation on the batang. I tend to agree that the Pattani sheath aesthetics usually results in the batang looking narrow and lanky compared to the sampir.

The luk on the blades flow quite sweetly, I thought. I admit that it does look a bit subdued, but still, it looks nicer than the luk Pattani blades I've seen.

The hilt also seems to have the nice full look of Terengganu hilts.

After this couple of pictures, I still tend to think it is Terengganu.

VVV · 12th June 2011, 10:08 AM

Thanks both for confirming Terengganu as a probable origin.
Btw Gustav, I still regret that I didn't react fast enough when that cool naga-keris you have was up for sale some years ago.

Michael

Gustav · 12th June 2011, 12:34 PM

Hello Michael,

this Naga keris is interesting of course, yet there are some shortcomings. Some of the rust pittings are deep; I don't know, if the possibility of blade reworking can be fully excluded - I think about the file marks on base and the joint line between blade and Gonjo going through a bad place in Greneng. Your Keris is actually the first one with slightly similar size of Greneng I have seen.

After all, mine seems to be a Peninsular blade, yet comes in Sulawesi dress.

Regards,
Gustav

DAHenkel · 19th June 2011, 07:36 AM

This certainly could be Terengganu but I'm more inclined to say Kelantan. Kelantan is a bit tricky as its in between and they also lack the stronger distinctive characteristics of Pattani or Terengganu (except the very obvious ones like Ku Sriwa sheaths and Tok Chu style blades). The blade of this one is so generic (not to say bad, just that the distinctive features are very sort of in-between) it could be from any of the three (or many other places besides). The sheath and hilt are definitely not Pattani though which militates against that origin. True, the tebeng style sheaths of Terengganu and Kelantan are indistinguishable but it still feels more Kelantan to me.

VVV · 19th June 2011, 02:45 PM

Gustav, I wouldn't be surprised if your naga keris was redressed later in Indonesia, as the seller has helped me with this for another keris and has good local contacts, but I am still fond of it anyway.

Dave, thanks for your comments on my keris.
When I bought it I guessed Terengganu but I didn't find any clear references. So that's why I posted it for discussion to get the opinion from those of you with much better knowledge of peninsular keris, which I appreciate.

Michael

10th June 2011, 09:47 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Help to identify keris blade Who could tell me some more about the blade of this keris? Michael Attached Images

10th June 2011, 10:08 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Could be a Pattani blade, judging from the shape of luk and especially last luk. Somewhere between a Carita and Malela blade. Here a similar size of greneng (not so often (?) on a Peninsular blade); and similar solution of gandhik/gonjo (possibly Terengganu). Striking, how similar are some features of Peninsular keris sometimes to Bali/Lombok keris (this example of course beeing havily Bugis influenced), again Kembang Kacang/Gandhik/Gonjo area. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 10th June 2011 at 10:22 PM.

11th June 2011, 08:37 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Gustav for the reference examples. Kai Wee, the hilt is still stuck so that's the reason why it's fixed on the pictures. Here is a close up of the scabbard and hilt from the front. Michael Attached Images

11th June 2011, 06:06 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here are two additional pictures of the hilt. I am not at home this weekend and this is the closest I had in my computer of it. Michael Attached Images

11th June 2011, 02:23 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Michael, Could you post a dead-on shot of the sheath, with the hilt turned to the right please? Thanks!

11th June 2011, 01:25 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Michael, Ok sure. It'd be great you could give me a shot of the side profile of the hilt. My first instinct was that the keris is Terengganu. The sheath doesn't have the awkward Pattani look. The blade itself too, does not strike me as Pattani.

11th June 2011, 01:58 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Kai Wee, I thought it would be Pattani just becouse the luks seemed static and lacking the "sweet" flow of Terengganu blades to me. Could they bee simply the smiths hallmarks? Is the batang to broad to be Pattani? Regards, Gustav

12th June 2011, 01:23 AM	#8
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Michael, Thanks. Good observation on the batang. I tend to agree that the Pattani sheath aesthetics usually results in the batang looking narrow and lanky compared to the sampir. The luk on the blades flow quite sweetly, I thought. I admit that it does look a bit subdued, but still, it looks nicer than the luk Pattani blades I've seen. The hilt also seems to have the nice full look of Terengganu hilts. After this couple of pictures, I still tend to think it is Terengganu.

12th June 2011, 10:08 AM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks both for confirming Terengganu as a probable origin. Btw Gustav, I still regret that I didn't react fast enough when that cool naga-keris you have was up for sale some years ago. Michael

12th June 2011, 12:34 PM	#10
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Hello Michael, this Naga keris is interesting of course, yet there are some shortcomings. Some of the rust pittings are deep; I don't know, if the possibility of blade reworking can be fully excluded - I think about the file marks on base and the joint line between blade and Gonjo going through a bad place in Greneng. Your Keris is actually the first one with slightly similar size of Greneng I have seen. After all, mine seems to be a Peninsular blade, yet comes in Sulawesi dress. Regards, Gustav

19th June 2011, 07:36 AM	#11
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	This certainly could be Terengganu but I'm more inclined to say Kelantan. Kelantan is a bit tricky as its in between and they also lack the stronger distinctive characteristics of Pattani or Terengganu (except the very obvious ones like Ku Sriwa sheaths and Tok Chu style blades). The blade of this one is so generic (not to say bad, just that the distinctive features are very sort of in-between) it could be from any of the three (or many other places besides). The sheath and hilt are definitely not Pattani though which militates against that origin. True, the tebeng style sheaths of Terengganu and Kelantan are indistinguishable but it still feels more Kelantan to me.

19th June 2011, 02:45 PM	#12
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Gustav, I wouldn't be surprised if your naga keris was redressed later in Indonesia, as the seller has helped me with this for another keris and has good local contacts, but I am still fond of it anyway. Dave, thanks for your comments on my keris. When I bought it I guessed Terengganu but I didn't find any clear references. So that's why I posted it for discussion to get the opinion from those of you with much better knowledge of peninsular keris, which I appreciate. Michael