Hook Sword or Axe ID Help Please

Clubs & Arrows · 15th April 2009, 02:29 AM

Hello.
I picked this up about a year ago with a big collection of Philippine and Indo Persian blades, and I'm still not even close to figuring out what it is. The overall length is 45 1/2" with the Oryx horn accounting for just under 31" of the total measurement. The blade is about 5/16" above the brass section, and the hook measures just under 3" from the point to the back edge. There is a small wc painted on the blade toward the horn which is barely legible, so I know that it was from Western Costume quite a few years back, as some of the other pieces in the collection had the wc mark as well. I'm sure that the hooked blade is old, but does anyone know if the horn was added or if it is original to this piece? Any help would be appreciated.

Best regards,
Joe

Clubs & Arrows · 15th April 2009, 02:30 AM

a few more pics

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2009, 04:32 AM

Hi Joe,
Extremely unusual piece, the blade appears to be a ram dao blade from NE India, border regions of Nepal. The use of the oryx horn, resembles the parrying weapons of the Marathas, the joined stag horns known as 'madu' (also maru, Pant p.184, "Indian Arms and Armour", New Delhi, 1980).

I cannot say I have ever seen such a version of ram dao, and the blade is extremely nice with the chiselled spine. This exact blade shape appears in Pant (op.cit. p.68, fig. 144).

These hybrid anomalies are most interesting, and reflect the amazing cross cultural diffusion of weapons and thier components via trade networks. The blade or perhaps, the entire weapon is carried to another location, then often remounted in either local style hilt or sometimes customized at the whim of the individual. I have seen so many weapons with completely atypical hilts its hard to even describe them all

Nice looking item!!!

All the best,
Jim

Clubs & Arrows · 17th April 2009, 08:21 PM

Hi Jim,
Thanks a lot for the ID help on this piece. I've had it for a little while, but since it isn't South Pacific, Philippines or Southeast Asian (where my interests are), then I wanted to find out where it was from before moving it on.

Thanks again,
Joe

Jim McDougall · 18th April 2009, 04:16 AM

You bet Joe, thank you as well for the opportunity to see it. I always enjoy learning something new, and this really is pretty nice.
All the best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 18th April 2009, 05:03 PM

I am not sure this is Asian work. These picture show hook very similar indeed. They are usually a heavy blade with a strong back. I have not seen one with a chased back but that still does not say Asian to me. I have not seen one with brass at the forte either, I have seen brass decoration on the handle. The brass on the forte here again does not make me think of Asia. I can see the horn as original to the blade and the way the blade was set in the horn with some sort of adhisive substance does make me think of Africa.

Tim Simmons · 19th April 2009, 06:55 PM

Is this a Gemsbok horn?

VANDOO · 19th April 2009, 07:16 PM

YEP!! THATS A GEMSBOK HORN, FOR MORE INFO SEE POST ON WALKING STICKS, CANES THERES INFO ON GEMSBOK THERE.

15th April 2009, 02:29 AM	#1
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Hook Sword or Axe ID Help Please Hello. I picked this up about a year ago with a big collection of Philippine and Indo Persian blades, and I'm still not even close to figuring out what it is. The overall length is 45 1/2" with the Oryx horn accounting for just under 31" of the total measurement. The blade is about 5/16" above the brass section, and the hook measures just under 3" from the point to the back edge. There is a small wc painted on the blade toward the horn which is barely legible, so I know that it was from Western Costume quite a few years back, as some of the other pieces in the collection had the wc mark as well. I'm sure that the hooked blade is old, but does anyone know if the horn was added or if it is original to this piece? Any help would be appreciated. Best regards, Joe Attached Images

15th April 2009, 02:30 AM	#2
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	a few more pics Attached Images

18th April 2009, 05:03 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I am not sure this is Asian work. These picture show hook very similar indeed. They are usually a heavy blade with a strong back. I have not seen one with a chased back but that still does not say Asian to me. I have not seen one with brass at the forte either, I have seen brass decoration on the handle. The brass on the forte here again does not make me think of Asia. I can see the horn as original to the blade and the way the blade was set in the horn with some sort of adhisive substance does make me think of Africa. Attached Images

19th April 2009, 06:55 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Horn Is this a Gemsbok horn?

16th April 2009, 04:32 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	Hi Joe, Extremely unusual piece, the blade appears to be a ram dao blade from NE India, border regions of Nepal. The use of the oryx horn, resembles the parrying weapons of the Marathas, the joined stag horns known as 'madu' (also maru, Pant p.184, "Indian Arms and Armour", New Delhi, 1980). I cannot say I have ever seen such a version of ram dao, and the blade is extremely nice with the chiselled spine. This exact blade shape appears in Pant (op.cit. p.68, fig. 144). These hybrid anomalies are most interesting, and reflect the amazing cross cultural diffusion of weapons and thier components via trade networks. The blade or perhaps, the entire weapon is carried to another location, then often remounted in either local style hilt or sometimes customized at the whim of the individual. I have seen so many weapons with completely atypical hilts its hard to even describe them all Nice looking item!!! All the best, Jim

17th April 2009, 08:21 PM	#4
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Hi Jim, Thanks a lot for the ID help on this piece. I've had it for a little while, but since it isn't South Pacific, Philippines or Southeast Asian (where my interests are), then I wanted to find out where it was from before moving it on. Thanks again, Joe

18th April 2009, 04:16 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	You bet Joe, thank you as well for the opportunity to see it. I always enjoy learning something new, and this really is pretty nice. All the best, Jim

19th April 2009, 07:16 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YEP!! THATS A GEMSBOK HORN, FOR MORE INFO SEE POST ON WALKING STICKS, CANES THERES INFO ON GEMSBOK THERE.