a recent montagnard dha i picked up

[carlitobrigante]

hi all, new to the forum. thought i might aswell share a recent dha i picked up from another collector. Only second dha sword ive had the pleasure to own, i believe it it a montagnard dha from laos or vietnam. Not sure the scabbard is as old as the sword itself. Blade shows a tempered / hardened edge. Hilt has brass (?) mounts inset with coloured stones, grip is lacquered rattan, and it has a heavy brass plug fitted as a pommel, likely to give it better balance?

anyway just thought id share as a hello to the forum









any further info on likely origin from the experts out there would be greatly appreciated.

[Battara]

Well that's really interesting, never saw turquoise and coral on a dha before.

[Rick]

Neither have I; and the pommel is way strange .

[carlitobrigante]

thanks for the comments guys. Yep i havent seen anything similar to this on my online travels, im still a novice though with these things. It seems a piece of nice quality to my newbie eyes. Any thoughts on whether scabbard original or not?

The brass plug is perplexing. Almost like they had finished making it, realised it didnt have correct balance so jammed this heavy brass plug in. I doubt its just for decoration. Maybe a replacement for the original pommel that was somehow lost?

Looks late 19th / early 20th cent to me, do you guys agree?

[kronckew]

the join between the blade and the grip seems oddly off centre in both the horizontal and vertical views, is this deliberate or has this been re-handled?

all my dhas have the blade and tang centrelines intersecting at the junction or overlapping, and the grip hole for receiving the tang is central as well, even if the blade and grip centrelines are at an angle.

the original posted one appears to have more blade below the central point than above, and in the spine view seems a bit more to the left of centre.

[carlitobrigante]

yep your right, the placement of the blade in the handle is off-centre, not as obvious as the photos make it look, not noticable in the hand till i looked close.

Theres some newer looking exopy in there as well, id say good chance blade came slightly loose and when re-seated and epoxyed it was done with blade dead centre.

So many unusual things on this dha. Theres quite a few very very small nicks along the length of the cutting edge, someone has given this one a fair bit of use aswell it seems.

[Philip]

I concur with Battara. Over the years I've handled a lot of "montagnard" dhas; quite a few came back with US troops during / after the Vietnam War and although the majority are fairly plain if not crude workaday specimens, there is the occasional one appropriate to a tribal chief: well decorated with silver and copper, sometimes with imported Burmese blades ornamented with gold and silver overlay in floral motifs. But never have I seen one ornamened with stones as this one is. Also, the purely cylindrical profile of the hilt components strike me as odd. These dhas invariably have a slightly conical ferrule at the head of the grip, right where the blade emerges. And as Kronckew points out, the asymmetrical positioning of the blade is a point of concern, and that odd pommel is also something that you don't find on the originals either.

Something to ask yourself -- why would an experienced cutler who's presumably made a career of fitting-up dhas, need to install a brass counterweight after-the-fact to improve the balance? Methinks that a craftsman who knows his trade wouldn't have to futz around like that. Especially considering that dha blades have a "blind" tang and therefore the length of the grip (which is a key element of balance) does not have to conform to the parameter set by tang length.

[Andrew]

I believe this is a recently made (or cobbled-together) sword.

Although it is difficult to glean much from the photos, the blade appears to be well made and may be older than the handle, scabbard and baldric. However, it is a common style still manufactured in modern Aranyik, and I would estimate it to be no older than second half of the 20th century.

The "pommel" plug is something I've never seen before and, frankly, strikes me as a meaningless addition. Some previous owner did not like the look of the typical hole/concavity at the distal end of the handle, and decided it needed to be plugged. As Philip notes, it makes no sense whatsoever.

The handle is either a replacement, or has otherwise been altered. The stonework was either done to increase the item's "curb appeal", or a prior owner decorated it for his own pleasure. I have owned several daab and dha decorated with semi-precious stones (low-grade rubies and, in one case, peridots), but never the type seen here.

Finally, I would not really consider this to be a "Montagnard" sword. Could it have been made for or used by a member of that group of "hill tribes"? Certainly. However, this is a Thai blade, similar in style to the ubiquitous swords brought back with US servicemen from the Vietnam War, as mentioned by Philip.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

[carlitobrigante]

Thanks for the opinion chaps. Very unusual thing for sure, yep i agree looks like that brass plug was stuck in by a previous owner...you know what though i actually kinda like it, fits in well with the rest of the fittings

for the price i paid im very happy with it. im getting a little collection of dha going now, these things are addictive :-)

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by carlitobrigante

Thanks for the opinion chaps. Very unusual thing for sure, yep i agree looks like that brass plug was stuck in by a previous owner...you know what though i actually kinda like it, fits in well with the rest of the fittings

for the price i paid im very happy with it. im getting a little collection of dha going now, these things are addictive :-)

One of the best things about dha (for me, anyway) is, indeed, the variety of styles, decoration, quality and execution. We see genuine examples that range from crude to spectacular. Some of the most interesting dha I've handled have recycled blades with personalized and modified fittings.

Welcome to the "dhafia".

[Tim Simmons]

I want to take a step back from the cliff edge. I know we can all be a little trigger happy when we see something we have not seen before, bang bang what ever it is its dead now . However the use of coral and turquoise is very common in areas bordering the lands that use dha. All along the Himalayas, Tibet , China. I believe this little box with enamels is from the Burma/China/Thai area. I am not trying to rock the boat or challenge oppinion, I just feel this might be to us an oddity that could well do with more research.

[Tim Simmons]

I would like to see much better clear pictures to start with. Close ups. This part looks gilded? Less subject to wear. Does the cut hole for the blade look bodgy? The parts do fit very well. Could they have been made for the handle? reminds me of my bicycle parts handle Dha? I bet this is 1940s.

[Andrew]

Hi Tim. I probably wasn't clear about my thoughts on the stones--I've just never seen this type of work before on a dha. Didn't mean to insinuate this couldn't be local work, just that it was something unfamiliar to me. Were I to see this come to market, I would probably buy it for that very reason.

My primary point is that I believe strongly that the handle (including the decorative stones, wire work and "pommel plug") are later additions to an older blade. This isn't meant to impute some nefarious or fraudulent intent upon prior owners. Quite the contrary--many, many dha blades exhibit such modifications, particularly good quality blades.

1940's? Perhaps the blade.

[carlitobrigante]

thanks for the input Gents. Will try and come up with some better pics, the camera isnt the greatest though. will post some more asap

[Nathaniel]

What are the specs....seems like a large grip...pretty heavy dark lacquer.

Where is the point of balance? Love to see some more photos.

[carlitobrigante]

chaps sorry for late response

stats are, blade 19 inchs exactly, grip / handle is 10 inchs long including the pommel plug thingy. Weighs about 450 grams but the scales i was using are a bit dodgy!. Very light thing though. Point of balance is approx 3 inchs from the top of the handle / where blade meets the hilt.

For me the majority of pieces ive seen so far using this type of coral and turquiose for decoration are from Tibet. I wouldnt be at all surprised to find out at least some of this piece came from that area and people. I know its not what you would probably call a museum piece but still a nice interesting thing to me, some pics attached which show the strong expoxy thats been used to set the blade firm again. Who ever did it did a good job as its now rock solid and the repair doesnt stand out.

The hardened edge / temper line is clear to see in the hand but hard to get in the pics. How were the majority of these dha's tempered btw? oil or water quenched? etc? It looks on one side of the blade particularly that its got an inserted harder steel edge. On the other side it looks more like a hamon?

also ref the thick laquered ratan on the grip. Is that common or give any indicator as to where it was made?

thanks for the info chaps / dhafia :-)









apologies the pics arent the best....




oh by the way, also see here another recent one i picked up very cheap, definately a 'fighter', long approx 25 inch blade, has quite a few battle scars, some edge nicks and some blocking dents on the spine, scary sharp aswell, id love any info on which region this example likely originates? thanks for your input.