Celebes Kobiti and katandu swords

Mytribalworld · 24th June 2007, 08:34 AM

Some years ago I did some recearch to the rare Celebes " Kobiti" swords.
Interesting I think because they seem to have " just walked away" from the bronze age but survived into the 19th century.
I asked many museum curators about them but there are not many found in museum collections.The museum in Rotterdam has the two hilts which are pictured in " Art in the Central Celebes" by Walter Kaudern.I was allowed to see them in person during a visit of the depots there.
In the design there's maybe a kind of " missing link" to Timorese sword hilts , the Celebes Sumara and other swords.

This type swords seem to be used by priest during ceremonies in relation with headhunting.The captured skull is touched with this sword and even childs joining the magic power of the skull by touching the sword.
Kobiti sword can have iron blades or blades made of bamboo.

The hilts of Rotterdam are found in the roof of a temple in Celebes.
I know the museum in Helsinki also has two complete related swords.(see pics)
they are described as "Katandu" swords.

In the book of Heger's " Alte Metaltrommeln" I found plates of enourmous old bronze age drums.If you look good you see that the motif used is quite the same as the design of the sword hilts from Kaudern.
And then of course the question: did they made the hilt after seeing the design of the drum or did the design survived ages till the 19th century?

Information on such swords is scarce so I gladly want to list this thread.
Maybe someone has also found ever information about them?

sources:

Heger- Alte Metaltrommeln
Adriani en Kruyt- De baree spreekende Toradja's van midden Celebes.
Walter kaudern-Art in Central celebes
Verslag van den toestand van het museum voor land en volkenkunde en martiem museum '' Prins Hendrik" te Rotterdam 1921.

VANDOO · 27th June 2007, 08:44 PM

A VERY INTERESTING SORT OF KNIFE I HAD NOT SEEN BEFORE. THE WORKMANSHIP LOOKS EXCEPTIONALY GOOD AND THE DESIGN IS INTERESTING . THE DESIGNS REMIND ME OF BIRDS HEADS OR WINGS AND SOME OF THE OTHERS COULD BE INTERPRETED AS BIRD HEADS OR FISH TAILS. I DON'T HAVE MANY ITEMS FROM THESE ISLANDS BUT HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THEM.

I SAW QUITE A VARIETY IN BALI FROM ISLANDS IN THE AREA SOME OF WHICH APPEARED TO BE OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN MADE BEFORE THE USE OF SWORDS WAS LARGELY ELIMINATED BY MODERN FIREARMS. BUT MOST LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE NEWER MADE AGED EXAMPLES BUT THE FORM WAS GOOD MOSTLY THE BLADES WERE A BIT TOO THIN AND UNIFORM TO HAVE BEEN FORGED. I DID NOT SEE ANY EXAMPLES OF THE PRIEST KNIFE.
THANKS FOR SHAREING IR IS ALWAYS FUN TO SEE SOMETHING NEW.

Battara · 28th June 2007, 02:23 AM

I'm very interersted in ceremonial pieces. Thank you so much for sharing.

VVV · 9th July 2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Some years ago I did some recearch to the rare Celebes " Kobiti" swords. (snip)
Information on such swords is scarce so I gladly want to list this thread.
Maybe someone has also found ever information about them?

sources:

Heger- Alte Metaltrommeln
Adriani en Kruyt- De baree spreekende Toradja's van midden Celebes.
Walter kaudern-Art in Central celebes
Verslag van den toestand van het museum voor land en volkenkunde en martiem museum '' Prins Hendrik" te Rotterdam 1921.

Arjan,

Thanks for sharing this information.
I didn't know of the ones in Helsinki. Next time I am there I will try to find out more about them.
Unfortunately I don't have any additional information other than the sources that you already have listed.

Michael

24th June 2007, 08:34 AM	#1
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Celebes Kobiti and katandu swords Some years ago I did some recearch to the rare Celebes " Kobiti" swords. Interesting I think because they seem to have " just walked away" from the bronze age but survived into the 19th century. I asked many museum curators about them but there are not many found in museum collections.The museum in Rotterdam has the two hilts which are pictured in " Art in the Central Celebes" by Walter Kaudern.I was allowed to see them in person during a visit of the depots there. In the design there's maybe a kind of " missing link" to Timorese sword hilts , the Celebes Sumara and other swords. This type swords seem to be used by priest during ceremonies in relation with headhunting.The captured skull is touched with this sword and even childs joining the magic power of the skull by touching the sword. Kobiti sword can have iron blades or blades made of bamboo. The hilts of Rotterdam are found in the roof of a temple in Celebes. I know the museum in Helsinki also has two complete related swords.(see pics) they are described as "Katandu" swords. In the book of Heger's " Alte Metaltrommeln" I found plates of enourmous old bronze age drums.If you look good you see that the motif used is quite the same as the design of the sword hilts from Kaudern. And then of course the question: did they made the hilt after seeing the design of the drum or did the design survived ages till the 19th century? Information on such swords is scarce so I gladly want to list this thread. Maybe someone has also found ever information about them? sources: Heger- Alte Metaltrommeln Adriani en Kruyt- De baree spreekende Toradja's van midden Celebes. Walter kaudern-Art in Central celebes Verslag van den toestand van het museum voor land en volkenkunde en martiem museum '' Prins Hendrik" te Rotterdam 1921. Attached Images

27th June 2007, 08:44 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY INTERESTING SORT OF KNIFE I HAD NOT SEEN BEFORE. THE WORKMANSHIP LOOKS EXCEPTIONALY GOOD AND THE DESIGN IS INTERESTING . THE DESIGNS REMIND ME OF BIRDS HEADS OR WINGS AND SOME OF THE OTHERS COULD BE INTERPRETED AS BIRD HEADS OR FISH TAILS. I DON'T HAVE MANY ITEMS FROM THESE ISLANDS BUT HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THEM. I SAW QUITE A VARIETY IN BALI FROM ISLANDS IN THE AREA SOME OF WHICH APPEARED TO BE OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN MADE BEFORE THE USE OF SWORDS WAS LARGELY ELIMINATED BY MODERN FIREARMS. BUT MOST LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE NEWER MADE AGED EXAMPLES BUT THE FORM WAS GOOD MOSTLY THE BLADES WERE A BIT TOO THIN AND UNIFORM TO HAVE BEEN FORGED. I DID NOT SEE ANY EXAMPLES OF THE PRIEST KNIFE. THANKS FOR SHAREING IR IS ALWAYS FUN TO SEE SOMETHING NEW.

28th June 2007, 02:23 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I'm very interersted in ceremonial pieces. Thank you so much for sharing.