|
5th April 2010, 02:00 PM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
|
Megantoro
Dapur megantoro, pamor pedaringan
|
|
|
|
5th April 2010, 04:53 PM
|
#2 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Hi Marco,
Like "Karna Tinandhing" (two sekar kacangs in one blade), this type of dhapur is also reflecting the brilliant idea of the creator -- combination of keris with luks and straight blade... Combined in one nice curving bottom lines of "ganja wilut" I have one, but not as good as yours. In Yogyakartan sheath too... GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
5th April 2010, 06:11 PM
|
#3 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
|
Lovely blades.. I've always love this dapur.. this and Pulanggeni.. Congrats to all whom have this blade..
|
|
|
|
|
5th April 2010, 07:25 PM
|
#4 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 313
|
Hi Marcokeris,
Wonderful piece ! My compliments  Purchased during your latest visit to Java, I suppose. |
|
|
|
|
5th April 2010, 11:41 PM
|
#5 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,890
|
Nice keris Marco.
Pak Ganja, would be kind enough to list the ricikan of keris dhapur megantoro for us? Thank you. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 02:20 AM
|
#6 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
With pleasure, Alan, I try to describe it. This dhapur is one of my favorite for a long time. And one of the best Megantara (or Megantoro) I've ever seen in my hand is the one in the collection of Mr Haryono Guritno (as you may see in his book, "Keris Jawa" on page 319 and 358 -- picture below). A Megantara with tinatah emas (gold ornament) "wadana sawelas" (ornaments in eleven surfaces of the blade) in Yogyakartan dress of timoho gayaman ('ngingrim motif'), gold pendhok with diamonds... A truly elegant keris pusaka of Yogyakarta.
IMHO, from what I've seen from other Megantara kerises too, it is the type of "medium sized" keris. Mine is 33 cm length without pesi (almost 7 cm), compare to most Javanese kerises that usually measured 35 cm without pesi. All has "wilut" (double curve, or it is more precise -- "kelap lintah") ganja. And it usually has details of sekar kacang "pogok" (not full sekar kacang) but in a specific form of "kecambah" (sprout?) or even at a glance -- as cock's head.. Other details -- it has always seven luks, with one jalen, one lambe gajah, pejetan, tikel alis, greneng with curving end, and must have a kruwingan until 3/4 of the blade... It looks more feminine blade, than masculin... Why always seven? It might be traced from its name "mega" or sky. In "candra sengkala" sky also reflect "7" score too. Also in Indonesian expression, we know this paraphrase of "... sampai langit ke tujuh" or 'until the seventh sky'. I don't know who created this dhapur. But from what I've seen, at least from the pusaka of Yogyakarta in the hand of Haryono Guritno -- the tangguh supposed to be Majapahit... GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 02:38 AM
|
#7 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,890
|
Thank you Pak Ganja.
So, would an accurate list of the ricikan that are found in keris dhapur megantoro be:- luk tujuh, gonjo wilut, ada-ada, kembang kacang pogok, lambe gajah satu, jalen satu, kruwingan, greneng ? Is there anything that I have ommitted? Yes, I agree with you that this seems like a tangguh Majapahit keris dhapur, well, East Jawa at least. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 04:35 AM
|
#8 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Yes, Alan. And the last luk is longer, and even straight at the tip of the blade. So, always combination of keris with luks and straight at the tip of the blade... Perhaps Empu Supa's style, IMHO...
GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 04:49 AM
|
#9 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
THE SAME EMPU?
Will it be exagerated, if I supposed that this popular Si Ginje in the collection of the National Museum of Indonesia also was made by the same Empu? Empu Supa of Majapahit kingdom? Or which Supa? Look at the style and ornaments of this Sumatran keris...
GANJAWULUNG Last edited by ganjawulung; 6th April 2010 at 05:00 AM. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 05:09 AM
|
#10 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,890
|
Thank you Pak Ganja.
So there is only one kembang kacang? As you would appreciate, the attribution of a blade to a particular maker is very difficult. I'm well aware of the conventions that attribute blades to various makers upon the similarity in styles to agreed standards, however, if we were to accept without question these conventions, I think Empu Kinom must have produced maybe 10,000 blades or more during his lifetime. Quite incredible production. Similar production numbers can be attributed to other well known and popular makers also. So, when we look at a couple of blades and see some similarities in those blades, I really do feel it is drawing a very long bow to attribute to the same maker. It might be more wise to attribute to the same school, as we do with art works in other fields that possess similar characteristics. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 05:27 AM
|
#11 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Yes, Alan, I agree. The same school... Coincidentally, with the same luk -- 7 luks -- and the same style with kruwingan at 3/4 of the blade, and "gelung" (kanyut) at the end of the greneng...
GANJAWULUNG Last edited by ganjawulung; 7th April 2010 at 12:59 AM. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 05:59 AM
|
#12 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,890
|
Probably no coincidence, but intentional.
However --- one kembang kacang in megantoro? Refresh my memory, if you would please, Pak Ganja. Briefly, what is the history of Si Ginje? Who was its first custodian? |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 06:29 AM
|
#13 | |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Quote:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=ginje GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 08:33 AM
|
#14 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 272
|
hello mister maisey the ricikan you appointed luk tujuh, gonjo wilut, ada-ada, kembang kacang pogok, lambe gajah satu, jalen satu, kruwingan, greneng ? so when a keris have his al than is it a dapur megantara??????? so like my keris
semar Last edited by semar; 6th April 2010 at 07:47 PM. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 12:37 PM
|
#15 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,890
|
Thank you Pak Ganja. Perfect.
Semar, that is what Pak Ganja has been saying. My posts have only been to clarify, no more. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 12:52 PM
|
#16 | |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 03:51 PM
|
#17 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
|
May be I am wrong, but there are some old specimens showing two kembang kacang pogok (?).
Even keris posted by Semar seems to have two, but regarding this picture nobody can be sure about ricikan, of course .About lambe gajah: has Marco's keris two of them? Last edited by Gustav; 6th April 2010 at 04:02 PM. |
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 07:44 PM
|
#18 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 272
|
oke sorry mister maisey look to this one I think this one is also a megantara
|
|
|
|
|
6th April 2010, 09:49 PM
|
#19 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
|
Semar, I am afraid this one has zero kembang kacang...
Thank you for the additional picture of your first keris. Last edited by Gustav; 6th April 2010 at 10:04 PM. |
|
|
|
|
7th April 2010, 02:13 AM
|
#20 | |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
7th April 2010, 09:23 AM
|
#21 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 272
|
hello Gustaf can you tel me than the name of this dapur
regards semar |
|
|
|
|
7th April 2010, 01:03 PM
|
#22 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
Quote:
Two more keris megantara from my collection and to be shown in my new book. Sorry for the picture quality. Best regards Jean |
|
|
|
|
|
7th April 2010, 01:53 PM
|
#23 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
Quote:
This dapur does not match with any known Javanese type but could be specified as Jarang Guyang with some exceptions (the only dapur with 7 luks and without kembang kacang). Best regards Jean |
|
|
|
|
|
8th April 2010, 10:22 AM
|
#24 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 272
|
hello jean
thank you for you info can you tel me in wich book I can find this Dapur gr semar |
|
|
|
|
8th April 2010, 11:28 AM
|
#25 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
Quote:
In my kris book pages 73 (picture) and 179 (description). Again your blade does not fully match with dapur Jaran guyang, it has no greneng especially. Best regards Jean |
|
|
|
|
|
18th January 2020, 06:22 PM
|
#26 |
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 205
|
Wonder if my blade is a MEGANTORO...personally I would say it is.
Deep central groove and the (worn) kembang Kacang Pogok but it is not 7 luk blade ( which is part of the parameter?). Wonder how old this blade is and the feather pamor type of pamor? The MEGANTORO dapur is often seen in East-Java / Madura region? |
|
|
|
|
20th January 2020, 10:43 AM
|
#27 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
I noticed this odd and worn blade at the recent Czerny's auction (replaced ganja?). Yes, the dapur could be identified as Megantara luk 5 although this is not a standard dapur. Dapur Megantara is not included in the reference book Dhapur (Surakarta pakem) but it is mentioned in the book Keris Jawa. The pamor pattern could be identified as Blarak Ngirid or Bulu Ayam.
Regards |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
