my favorite rapier

[cornelistromp]

Iam more into the early medieval swords as some might know but I will probably never be separated from this rapier, I think I appreciate the roughness of those 16th century swords.
blade 104cm AOL 122cm
blade stamped with a face mark and in the fuller CAVAIO MARINO.

I found a similar in the museum of Zagreb described as South German 1580, and I saw a statue in Madrid with a similar sword hilt.
So Iam not sure if it is German or Spanish.

Best,

[cornelistromp]

the mens head mark and inscription in the fuller.

[fernando]

Magnificent, Jasper
I would give everything to have it ... i swear!
You sure know what CAVALO MARINO means: Sea horse. The right spell in Spanish (Castillian) would be CAVALLO MARIÑO; Cavalo with a single L is the correct spell in Portuguese, by the way.
Well, with a bit of imagination,the facial shape of the hilt may resemble a sea horse. Would therefore the inscription be an allegory to the hilt type?
On the other hand, it could only be my eyes, but the head mark profile looks similar to one thought to be from Solingen.


.

[VANDOO]

SHE'S A BEAUTY I BET SHE FEELS GOOD IN THE HAND, HOWS THE BALANCE.?

[Jim McDougall]

Good points on the spelling, and as always, these unusual spellings of Spanish words and names often reveal Solingen work. It seems I have seen these rather rough looking almost 'mechanically' styled openwork hilts on at least one other rapier I can recall that was Spanish. In the latter 16th century it seems to me that Spanish nobility often was strongly drawn to German arms and armor, despite the clear leadership of Italian makers in setting fashion in weaponry. There are known examples of German work among recorded conquistador arms and armor, though I cannot say this style is part of these.
What does Norman say on the hilt style ?, Im too lazy to look it up

[cornelistromp]

the sword??? of the Spanish admiral Alvaro de Bazan, first marquise of Santa Cruz who defeated the Turkish ships at the Ionic sea, Lepanto, 7 October 1571. The sword together with the keys of the town of Tunesia concered in 1535 by the troups of carlos I.

[cornelistromp]

I found out that among this Fleet of the Holy League who fought the Battle of Lepanto on 7 October 1571. there was a Venetian Galley in the left wing called:

Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Candia — Antonio De Cavalli

so with a little imagination (why not) this rapier could have belonged to the captain of this ship Antonio de Cavalli.

see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...rder_of_battle

and for Italian.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglia_di_Lepanto_(ordine_di_battaglia)

The Left Wing
Commanded by Agostino Barbarigo (53 galleys, 2 galleasses)

Venetian Galleasses (2)
Galleass of Ambrogio Bragadin
Galleass of Antonio Bragadin
Venetian Galleys (39)
Capitana Lanterna (flagship lantern) of Venice (L) — Agostino Barbarigo, Proveditor General of the Republic
Capitana (flagship) of Venice (L) — Marco Querini, Proveditor of the Fleet
Fortuna (Fortune) of Venice — Andrea Barbarigo †
Tre Mani (Three Hands) of Venice — Giorgio Barbarigo
Due Delfini (Two Dolphins) of Candia — Francesco Zen
Leone e Fenice (Lion & Phoenix) of Candia — Francesco Mengano
Madonna (Milady) of Candia — Filippo Polani
Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Candia — Antonio De Cavalli
Due Leoni (Two Lions) of Candia — Nicolò Fradello
Leone (Lion) of Candia — Francesco Bonvecchio
Cristo (Christ) of Candia I — Andrea Corner
Angelo (Angel) of Candia — Giovanni Angelo
Piramide (Pyramid) of Candia — Francesco Bono †
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice I — Simon Guoro
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice II — Federico Renier
Cristo (Christ) of Corfu — Cristoforo Condocolli
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Candia I — Francesco Zancaruol
Cristo (Christ) of Venice I — Bartolomeo Donato
Cristo (Christ) of Candia II— Giovanni Corner
Christo Risordo (Risen Christ) of Candia II
Rodi (Rhodes) of Candia — Francesco Molini (Konstam gives Kodus)
Sant'Eufemia (St. Euphemia) of Brescia — Orazio Fisogni
Bravo (Skillful) of Candia — Michele Viramano (Konstam gives Blessed)
Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Venice
Cristo (Christ) of Candia III — Danielo Calefatti
Braccio (Arm) of Venice — Nicolò Lippomano (Konstam gives "of Candia")
Nostra Signora (Our Lady) of Zante — Nicolò Mondini
Christo Risordo (Risen Christ) of Candia III — Giorgio Calergi
Nostra Signora (Our Lady) of Venice I — Marcantonio Pisani
Dio Padre e Santa Trinità (God, Father & Holy Trinity) of Venice — Giovanni Marino Contarini †
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice III — Giovanni Battista Querini
Angelo (Angel) of Venice — Onfre Giustiniani
Santa Dorotea (St. Dorothy) of Venice — Polo Nani
Ketianana of Rethymno/Retimo — Nicolò Avonal
Lion's Head of Istria
Croce (Cross) of Cefalonia — Marco Cimera
Vergine Santa (Virgin Saint) of Cefalonia — Cristoforo Criffa
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Veglia — Lodovico Cicuta (Konstam gives "of Vegia")
San Nicolò (St. Nicholas) of Cherso — Colane Drascio
Some sources include:
Dama a cavallo (Lady on Horseback) of Candia — Antonio Eudomeniani
Leone (Lion) of Capodistria — Domenico Del Taco

[fernando]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... so with a little imagination (why not) this rapier could have belonged to the captain of this ship Antonio de Cavalli ...

Yes or, if not belonging to the Captain himself, making part of the Cavallo Marino galley arsenal ???.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Fernando

Yes or, if not belonging to the Captain himself, making part of the Cavallo Marino galley arsenal ???.

Hi Fernando,

Yes, of course that could also be possible, anyway i think we have to search in this direction because the wording CAVALO MARINO is highly unusual to put on a rapier.

regards,

pictures of Vitrine 04 of the Armeria Real in madrid

[Dmitry]

Hi,
A sword with a similar hilt is in the Cesta Castle armour collection, in San Marino. Perhaps CAVALO MARINO has something to do with the locale? [San] Marino Cavalry?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

... Perhaps CAVALO MARINO has something to do with the locale? [San] Marino Cavalry?

I don't know; i would be more inclined to associate this inscription to the Cretan Galley than to the enclave named after the Monk of Rab.
At least it sounds more coherent, as the dual word term (sea horse) form a plausible alegory.
It must be an interesting museum, by the way.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by fernando

I don't know; i would be more inclined to associate this inscription to the Cretan Galley than to the enclave named after the Monk of Rab.
At least it sounds more coherent, as the dual word term (sea horse) form a plausible alegory.
It must be an interesting museum, by the way.

Hi Dmitry,
thanks for the very nice picture !
I don't expect the sword had something to do with the cavalry of San Marino;
cavalry= cavalleria (IT) Caballeria(SP) Cavataria(PT)
Horse= Caballo (SP) cavallo (IT) cavalo (PT)
the translation of CAVALO MARINO is undoubtfully seahorse, and Seahorses do not come often on the mainland.

best,

[Jim McDougall]

Just to add to the ratiocination:

It is worthy of note that similar hilt configurations with this kind of pierced openwork in the elements are seen in "Armi Bianchi Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, Milan) example #142, shown as from Veneto c.1480-1500. Another two hander #584 c.1603 is seen with similar quadreform pierced pommel and quillons on guard (op. cit.).

Veneto is to the west of Venice, and there is a region known as Cavaion Veronese. This is simply worthy of note because of the similarity to the spelling of 'cavaio'. It seems likely that the 'cavaio' spelling is phonetically sounded to the word 'cavallo', which of course in Italian refers to horse.
The term cavallo is used describing a number of presumably cavalry or horsemans swords.

As is often the case, it seems there is always potential for classical and perhaps even mythological allusion in symbology in weapons with markings, inscriptions and phrases. With the term 'cavaio marino' it does seem to apply more to 'seahorse', as noted with the name of the galley at Lepanto.
It is not common however to put the name of an individual, ship or otherwise in the fuller of a sword as far as I am aware.

It seemed likely that perhaps heraldic metaphor might come into play with the seahorse in this case, and nothing specific was apparant, however in mythology the sea nymph Thetis, mother of Achilles, is sometimes depicted on a sea horse carrying the arms forged by Vulcan for Achilles.
("Fictitious and Symbolic Creatures in Art", John Vinycomb, 1909).

The weapons of Germany and Italy were often closely aligned in these times, and as has been noted, the mans head mark is similar to some of Solingen. The phonetic spelling of cavaio seems to reflect other instances where names or words spuriously applied in Solingen on blades often had spelling or other subtle errors.

We know that in Solingen blades were often tailored to certain markets and it is now believed that the names or words in blade fullers may well have been chosen and used to appeal to these markets. For example, the legendary Andrea Ferara name of course was favored in Scotland and was invariably placed on these broadsword blades; Sahagum blades often went to the north countries; Tomas Aiala is on rapier blades for export to Spain and its colonies.
Could the 'cavaio marino' carry classical allusion ? and perhaps be considered a 'brand' or blade type to appeal to Italian market?

Fanciful ? perhaps, but then sometimes such thinking is fun and at least worth considering.

[fernando]

Just a little note, Jim .
It looks as the word inscribed in the blade is actually CAVALO; only Jasper has read it (or spelled it) wrong .
Am i correct, Jasper ?

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Fernando

Just a little note, Jim .
It looks as the word inscribed in the blade is actually CAVALO; only Jasper has read it (or spelled it) wrong .
Am i correct, Jasper ?

Hi Fernando and Jim,

yes it is CAVALO, I misspelled it because when you pronounce cavalo, the L sounds like a I.

best,
Jasper

[Jim McDougall]

Its amazing what a simple error or omission can do in communication, in this case a simple letter, however this is exactly the kind of situations which permeate the weapons world much as any other. Transliteration and semantics have often steered accounts and understanding far off course.
However, in this case the suggestions still stand, we are still talking about the term 'seahorse' and how its application to this blade might be intended.

This phonetic spelling is exactly what I noted in my text, and the presumption that it might lead to Solingen was simplistic at best, but this situation has been seen profoundly in so many instances of blades known from there. Naturally spelling variations occurred constantly and these kinds of clues often are helpful in determining more on the words or inscriptions on swords.

Getting back to this rapier, it would seem that it has been reaffirmed in Italian context, but the question remains, why the seahorse term? Dmitrys suggestion for a unit of cavalry for San Marino, especially with a sword of such similarity held in that location was well reasoned and well placed.
However, again, these kinds of designations are seldom, if ever placed in the fullers of these blades.

While the seahorse is of course a nautical theme, its figure and character is likely to be present in other representations and allusions, especially in a heraldic sense. The maritime city states in Italy of course were nautical in primary sense, however they were with armies and presence in the regular parlance as well.

The term in the blade fuller remains a mystery but it is interesting trying different ideas to understand what it might mean. As always, strong possibility for the words being an allusion, term or expression intended to suggest the character or quality imbued in the blade. What would really be great would be finding another blade with these words!
It seems the sword type itself is pretty well established in Italy by the end of the 15th century, and these type features were used into the early 17th c

******Cerca Trova!*******

[cornelistromp]

example from musee de lármee

[fernando]

Some resemblance between this hilt and your favourite, indeed.
... But yours is more elaborated .

[cornelistromp]

Hi Fernando,
yes it is also a bit heavier version, and earlier, compared to the one in Paris.

best,
jasper

[fernando]

Yeah ... i remember the cavalo marinho riddle ... and confessing i envy you for the possession of such examle. I wouldn't mind to have it as my favorite either .

[ulfberth]

That is indeed a very exeptional rapier Jasper, is it still in you'r collection ?

Kind regards
Ulfberth

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by ulfberth

That is indeed a very exeptional rapier Jasper, is it still in you'r collection ?

Kind regards
Ulfberth

Hi Dirk,

of course it is.

best,
jasper

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Dirk,

of course it is.

best,
jasper

Congratulations with it, a rapier with this type of hilt is extremely hard to find !

kind regards

Ulfberth