What about plug bayonets?

fernando · 1st October 2008, 11:25 PM

We call them baionetas de 'caça' (hunting). The Spaniards go for the plug version, baionetas de 'taco'.
As plenty other weaponry over here, patterns found are massively Spanish, often comprehended as Iberian and little times specifically Portuguese ... the late obviously becoming rare, in ( at least) collecting terms.
This one is one of those Iberian riddles. Its style tends to be from Andalucia, on what touches blade and its peripheric works. However the handle, probably made in holm, has a German touch ( the spheric ferrule), which was a fashion practised by the Portuguese.
This is one of the most elegant pieces i ever found.
Hope you enjoy seeing it.
Fernando

Andrew · 2nd October 2008, 12:48 AM

Outstanding, Fernando. Thank you for sharing this. I particularly like the file-work on the spine.

I'm intrigued by these weapons. Plugging my primary weapon would scare me silly.

fernando · 2nd October 2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Outstanding, Fernando. Thank you for sharing this. I particularly like the file-work on the spine...

I feel honoured

Jim McDougall · 3rd October 2008, 07:56 AM

You're right Fernando! The plug bayonet is indeed a fascinating weapon, which seems to have survived much longer than supposed, due to its continued use well into the 19th century as a hunting weapon.

How appropriate that you open this interesting topic with a truly 'flagship' weapon as this.

I agree with Andrew, the filework on this is incredibly attractive, and as you note, seems characteristic of Andulusian pieces. It seems in looking through the important work on these weapons by R.D.C.Evans ("The Plug Bayonet ", London, 2002), the cylindrical pommel caps occur significantly on Catalonian and Valencian versions. However, they also appear on some Germanic examples , which seem to come from the Low Countries. It is noted that many weapons were exported to Portugal from Liege, who favored the Germanic influences. On one example in Evans (p.119) it is quite early, c.1700, and the cup shaped ferrule of 'Germanic form' is invested in the forward surface of the grip swell, supporting your note on that feature.

It seems in another discussion, you did quite a bit of work researching the wood in this grip, you refer to 'holm'. Could you say more on that?

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 3rd October 2008, 05:21 PM

Hi Jim, thank you for your kind words.
Still in Evan's work, from where i was 'inspired' (no miracles), i'd call your attention for page 246, plate 487, where he shows an end XVIII century Portuguese bayonet with such cup ferrule of German ( via Liege) taste.
(I have also noticed that these cups are often visible in German hunting swords).
In same page, plate 488, we can see that, although the file work in blade backs is a Spanish (Andalucian) fashion, it also occurs in Portuguese specimens.
Nothing more i can say about the handle wood being holm (Azinho, over here). The sugestion was posted in the previous thread by Spiral, and i thaught it was quite plausible. Azinho abunds in certain areas of the country, was used in ancient times in naval construction, is a conveniently hard wood and can be seen in tool handles ... as also in traditional sculpture. I confess i never showed it to a wood connoisseur ... though i had that in mind.
Fernando

1st October 2008, 11:25 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	What about plug bayonets? We call them baionetas de 'caça' (hunting). The Spaniards go for the plug version, baionetas de 'taco'. As plenty other weaponry over here, patterns found are massively Spanish, often comprehended as Iberian and little times specifically Portuguese ... the late obviously becoming rare, in ( at least) collecting terms. This one is one of those Iberian riddles. Its style tends to be from Andalucia, on what touches blade and its peripheric works. However the handle, probably made in holm, has a German touch ( the spheric ferrule), which was a fashion practised by the Portuguese. This is one of the most elegant pieces i ever found. Hope you enjoy seeing it. Fernando Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 2nd October 2008 at 12:50 AM. Reason: word addition

2nd October 2008, 12:48 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Outstanding, Fernando. Thank you for sharing this. I particularly like the file-work on the spine. I'm intrigued by these weapons. Plugging my primary weapon would scare me silly.

3rd October 2008, 07:56 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,894	You're right Fernando! The plug bayonet is indeed a fascinating weapon, which seems to have survived much longer than supposed, due to its continued use well into the 19th century as a hunting weapon. How appropriate that you open this interesting topic with a truly 'flagship' weapon as this. I agree with Andrew, the filework on this is incredibly attractive, and as you note, seems characteristic of Andulusian pieces. It seems in looking through the important work on these weapons by R.D.C.Evans ("The Plug Bayonet ", London, 2002), the cylindrical pommel caps occur significantly on Catalonian and Valencian versions. However, they also appear on some Germanic examples , which seem to come from the Low Countries. It is noted that many weapons were exported to Portugal from Liege, who favored the Germanic influences. On one example in Evans (p.119) it is quite early, c.1700, and the cup shaped ferrule of 'Germanic form' is invested in the forward surface of the grip swell, supporting your note on that feature. It seems in another discussion, you did quite a bit of work researching the wood in this grip, you refer to 'holm'. Could you say more on that? All the best, Jim

3rd October 2008, 05:21 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jim, thank you for your kind words. Still in Evan's work, from where i was 'inspired' (no miracles), i'd call your attention for page 246, plate 487, where he shows an end XVIII century Portuguese bayonet with such cup ferrule of German ( via Liege) taste. (I have also noticed that these cups are often visible in German hunting swords). In same page, plate 488, we can see that, although the file work in blade backs is a Spanish (Andalucian) fashion, it also occurs in Portuguese specimens. Nothing more i can say about the handle wood being holm (Azinho, over here). The sugestion was posted in the previous thread by Spiral, and i thaught it was quite plausible. Azinho abunds in certain areas of the country, was used in ancient times in naval construction, is a conveniently hard wood and can be seen in tool handles ... as also in traditional sculpture. I confess i never showed it to a wood connoisseur ... though i had that in mind. Fernando