Closed Burgonet, help identify, please :)

SimonM77 · 24th April 2022, 10:09 AM

Hi there,

I am considering this Closed Burgonet, probably Flemish/French, probably first half of 17th century?

The "skull" is from one piece.

Does anyone have any info about those? I am by no means an expert on the subject.

- Simon

Raf · 24th April 2022, 10:57 AM

These are currently being manufactured in Roorkee India.

SimonM77 · 24th April 2022, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raf

These are currently being manufactured in Roorkee India.

Do you have a source to compare?

SimonM77 · 24th April 2022, 11:00 AM

Lewis & Grant has one for sale that looks a lot like it?

Raf · 24th April 2022, 01:50 PM

[QUOTE=SimonM77;271409]Lewis & Grant has one for sale that looks a lot like it?

Yes , Im afraid that's the problem. Here is another one. The ingenious craftsmen of Roorkee have recently started making copies of both replicas and fakes manufactured in Eastern Europe. Image 2 is a replica made in India. Image 3 is an Eastern European fake . The last one is one is made in India. Impossible to say whether the image is of the copy or the original.

SimonM77 · 24th April 2022, 02:34 PM

This is what I get for once of them:

Made in India.

Here is a review:

"Not great quality, sharp edges, rivet broke holding one of the leather straps requiring me to have to weld it to fix it, there’s nothing to hold the shoulder pauldrons on, so had to modify a belt to use for that purpose. Looks ok, but as previously stated my others, it is literally shoe laces that are used, and the colour is different to those shown in the pictures. It’s not terrible for the price, but expected certain things to be better even for this price."

fernando · 24th April 2022, 04:28 PM

Gentlemen, you know the rules; no links to active sales allowed ... whether fakes or genuine items.

SimonM77 · 25th April 2022, 07:39 AM

Apologies - was for illustrative purposes only.

Lansquenet59 · 25th April 2022, 11:23 AM

I have already seen this model several times on the market too.
It's actually a nice copy.
It is probably inspired by an original model which is perhaps unique.
But when you see 1,2,3,4... identical, you have to ask yourself the question...

Villerica · 4th May 2022, 09:42 AM

I have one of these helmets. There are many in circulation. I always thought they were made in England not in India. I bought mine as a reproduction of course from a guy in England who sent me a CD with all the different types of helmets they made including many fake picklehaubes. A lot of the models were English civil war styles.
Some are quite good decorative objects. I think that this one is not based on an original as I have never seen a form quite like this one. I don't think that you could see very well wearing this helmet !

Raf · 4th May 2022, 12:48 PM

I made an error in this post that I should have corrected. The images posted were from Indian sites but it turns out the images are all lifted from makers of 'museum quality' replica armour located in Poland. What you see is in all probability not what you get.

24th April 2022, 10:09 AM	#1
SimonM77 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 21	Closed Burgonet, help identify, please :) Hi there, I am considering this Closed Burgonet, probably Flemish/French, probably first half of 17th century? The "skull" is from one piece. Does anyone have any info about those? I am by no means an expert on the subject. - Simon Attached Images

24th April 2022, 11:00 AM	#4
SimonM77 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 21	Lewis & Grant has one for sale that looks a lot like it? Last edited by fernando; 24th April 2022 at 04:26 PM.

24th April 2022, 01:50 PM	#5
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	[QUOTE=SimonM77;271409]Lewis & Grant has one for sale that looks a lot like it? Yes , Im afraid that's the problem. Here is another one. The ingenious craftsmen of Roorkee have recently started making copies of both replicas and fakes manufactured in Eastern Europe. Image 2 is a replica made in India. Image 3 is an Eastern European fake . The last one is one is made in India. Impossible to say whether the image is of the copy or the original. Attached Images

24th April 2022, 02:34 PM	#6
SimonM77 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 21	This is what I get for once of them: Made in India. Here is a review: "Not great quality, sharp edges, rivet broke holding one of the leather straps requiring me to have to weld it to fix it, there’s nothing to hold the shoulder pauldrons on, so had to modify a belt to use for that purpose. Looks ok, but as previously stated my others, it is literally shoe laces that are used, and the colour is different to those shown in the pictures. It’s not terrible for the price, but expected certain things to be better even for this price." Last edited by fernando; 24th April 2022 at 04:26 PM.

24th April 2022, 10:57 AM	#2
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	These are currently being manufactured in Roorkee India.

24th April 2022, 04:28 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Gentlemen, you know the rules; no links to active sales allowed ... whether fakes or genuine items.

25th April 2022, 07:39 AM	#8
SimonM77 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 21	Apologies - was for illustrative purposes only.

25th April 2022, 11:23 AM	#9
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	I have already seen this model several times on the market too. It's actually a nice copy. It is probably inspired by an original model which is perhaps unique. But when you see 1,2,3,4... identical, you have to ask yourself the question...

4th May 2022, 09:42 AM	#10
Villerica Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Posts: 26	I have one of these helmets. There are many in circulation. I always thought they were made in England not in India. I bought mine as a reproduction of course from a guy in England who sent me a CD with all the different types of helmets they made including many fake picklehaubes. A lot of the models were English civil war styles. Some are quite good decorative objects. I think that this one is not based on an original as I have never seen a form quite like this one. I don't think that you could see very well wearing this helmet !

4th May 2022, 12:48 PM	#11
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	I made an error in this post that I should have corrected. The images posted were from Indian sites but it turns out the images are all lifted from makers of 'museum quality' replica armour located in Poland. What you see is in all probability not what you get.