Moroccan axe?

kronckew · 17th November 2018, 03:22 PM

North West african axe: Info from vendor
=================================
Country: Morocco
Weapon Type: Axe
Year of Manufacture: 1900
Overall Length: 34.5 cm
Barrel/ blade length: 27.3 cm

A beautiful tomahawk
hand-carved by an artist in Morocco in the 20's
the handle is made of quality hornbeam wood,
the blade is made of carbon steel with an
engraving of a tree with leaves
=================================

Coming my way from Israel. I am awaiting being gouged by customs.

Thought it looked cool. not sure if the head is on the right way

Have seen them both ways....

Couldn't find any ref. by searching the forum (or google).

fernando · 17th November 2018, 06:10 PM

I view it better; in the inverted position

; dated 1899

... and hardly from Morocco

.

.

kronckew · 17th November 2018, 08:38 PM

As I suspected, the bit of the haft near the socket looks like it had been slid off and repositioned. It coming from Israel made me suspicious of the Maroc connection too.

The question now is where was it from?

I suspect the bird is NOT one of Odin's Ravens, and the blade foliage decor is NOT Yggdrasil

. Hornbeam, if it is hornbeam, is native to northern Europe and eastern Asia, not north africa, tho there was trade all over. Another one I found online was attributed to Algeria. It had the head on correctly and had a horrible multicolour horizontal stripe painted and lathe turned haft.

Kubur · 17th November 2018, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... and hardly from Morocco

.

.

Probably because it's Afghan or Balutch

fernando · 18th November 2018, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Probably because it's Afghan or Balutch

...

Sorry my nonsense but, wouldn't those be more in the pierced blade style ... and no birds (animals) representation, as per Muslim customs ?

motan · 18th November 2018, 03:12 PM

Hi,
No idea, but just wanted to remark that decoration looks like tree of life, which is definitely an Islamic symbol, found on weapons, carpets and many other things.
Eytan

Kubur · 18th November 2018, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Sorry my nonsense but, wouldn't those be more in the pierced blade style ... and no birds (animals) representation, as per Muslim customs ?

Don't worry, Muslim weapons are full of birds, especially Indian ones, there are forbidden in mosques no more..

kronckew · 18th November 2018, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motan

Hi,
No idea, but just wanted to remark that decoration looks like tree of life, which is definitely an Islamic symbol, found on weapons, carpets and many other things.
Eytan

The tree of life is also a north European/scandanavian religious symbol

It's name is Yggdrasil. The axe is of course NOT Viking....

or is it?

Nice to see some variation in input....

kronckew · 18th November 2018, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Don't worry, Muslim weapons are full of birds, especially Indian ones, there are forbidden in mosques no more..

Indeed, the depiction of worshipped Idols is forbidden, the extension to ANY depiction of sentient beings is a minority. Even the Taliban, who destroy non-islamic historical art are not above depicting themselves in art, photography and in videos. They even may have Photographs of their Idolised Leaders, which is surely forbidden and deserves the severest penalty for them and those who idolise them.

ariel · 19th November 2018, 12:07 PM

I think Fernando’s inversion of the axe head is correct.
The butts of Indian axes very often carried an element representing some kind of living creature, just like here
IMHO it is from India.

kronckew · 19th November 2018, 12:21 PM

Thanks, that seems logical...

Googled 'Indian axe' - that was useless as google thinks native Americans came from the Indian sub continent.

Indo-persian worked better, found a couple with very much the same bird, but symmetrically bladed axes, they were listed as mughal. Using mughal axe if found two heads very much like mine. Without hafts & no origin listed. Finally found a very close head shown in fernando's alignment, but with a round haft and socket. It was listed with a somewhat less than useful description as "Old Indo Persian Mughal Islamic Scripts Ottoman Turkish Arab Talismanic War Axe".

I think I'll refer to it as 'Mughal Indian'.

fernando · 19th November 2018, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... Googled 'Indian axe' - that was useless as google thinks native Americans came from the Indian sub continent...

You should Google in my lingo; we name them differently. Indio is the native American and Indiano is the ihnabitant of India.

17th November 2018, 03:22 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Moroccan axe? North West african axe: Info from vendor ================================= Country: Morocco Weapon Type: Axe Year of Manufacture: 1900 Overall Length: 34.5 cm Barrel/ blade length: 27.3 cm A beautiful tomahawk hand-carved by an artist in Morocco in the 20's the handle is made of quality hornbeam wood, the blade is made of carbon steel with an engraving of a tree with leaves ================================= Coming my way from Israel. I am awaiting being gouged by customs. Thought it looked cool. not sure if the head is on the right way Have seen them both ways.... Couldn't find any ref. by searching the forum (or google). Attached Images

17th November 2018, 06:10 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I view it better; in the inverted position ; dated 1899 ... and hardly from Morocco . . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 17th November 2018 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Spell

19th November 2018, 12:21 PM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Thanks, that seems logical... Googled 'Indian axe' - that was useless as google thinks native Americans came from the Indian sub continent. Indo-persian worked better, found a couple with very much the same bird, but symmetrically bladed axes, they were listed as mughal. Using mughal axe if found two heads very much like mine. Without hafts & no origin listed. Finally found a very close head shown in fernando's alignment, but with a round haft and socket. It was listed with a somewhat less than useful description as "Old Indo Persian Mughal Islamic Scripts Ottoman Turkish Arab Talismanic War Axe". I think I'll refer to it as 'Mughal Indian'. Last edited by kronckew; 19th November 2018 at 12:51 PM.

17th November 2018, 08:38 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	As I suspected, the bit of the haft near the socket looks like it had been slid off and repositioned. It coming from Israel made me suspicious of the Maroc connection too. The question now is where was it from? I suspect the bird is NOT one of Odin's Ravens, and the blade foliage decor is NOT Yggdrasil . Hornbeam, if it is hornbeam, is native to northern Europe and eastern Asia, not north africa, tho there was trade all over. Another one I found online was attributed to Algeria. It had the head on correctly and had a horrible multicolour horizontal stripe painted and lathe turned haft.

18th November 2018, 03:12 PM	#6
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi, No idea, but just wanted to remark that decoration looks like tree of life, which is definitely an Islamic symbol, found on weapons, carpets and many other things. Eytan

19th November 2018, 12:07 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think Fernando’s inversion of the axe head is correct. The butts of Indian axes very often carried an element representing some kind of living creature, just like here IMHO it is from India.