bugis keris

[Gee1971]

selamat pagi !

I just bought a keris, seems be bugis style and old, the scabbard have some writings in arabic and some chabalistic signs (jawi ??), the seller told me it's platina metal on, what do you think about it ?
I'll receive it next week, that's the sellers pic.

Gaëtan

[Gustav]

Hello Gaetan,

the sheath and hilt look like a Central-Sumatra (Siak, Riau). Blade is rather crude, if you have some luck the sheath could be low percent silver.
I have serious doubts there would be oversheaths made from platinum at all.

[Gee1971]

Thanks Gustav,

The seller sold me for 390 euros, is it a correct price ?

[Rick]

Could we see some closer pictures of the blade, please (when you get it) ?
A close-up of the hilt would be nice too .

The dress is most unusual and is probably silver plated .
A tour de force of overlay work and repousse .

The price one pays for something is often a reflection of how much they desire it .

If it is Silver, all the better .

[David]

Originally Posted by Gee1971

Thanks Gustav,

The seller sold me for 390 euros, is it a correct price ?

Better photos, especially of the blade, would be helpful. Checking for the sliver content of the sheath (i also seriously doubt any platinum content) might account for some costs. Holding this keris in hand might reveal some signs of quality as yet unseen. But based only on what i can see and know at this point i am sorry that i suspect you paid waaaaaay too much for this keris.

[asomotif]

Platinum is almost as expensive as gold. So this can not be Platinum. (sorry )

If it is platinum, please give me the sellers name, and I will buy all his stock and stop working

It does not look like silver either. probably some nickel alloy.

But in the end, it is not the material that is important.
You must like the keris and be happy with it.
My favourite keris are dressed in wood with hardly any silver to it.

Best regards,
Willem

[Gee1971]

Well, I was attracted by the back with the inscriptions and I like the bugis scabbard style

i'll post pics when I'll receive it. Terima Kasih !!

[David]

Originally Posted by Gee1971

Well, I was attracted by the back with the inscriptions and I like the bugis scabbard style

The scabbard style looks Sumatran to me, but i am not sure i would refer to this as a Bugis style and the blade doesn't look Bugis to me either.

[Jean]

Hello Gaetan,
I saw this kris on a French Internet site and contacted the seller. I think that he did not mean that the sheath is made from or contains any platinum but that it is plated; he quoted vermeil (gold-plated silver) if I remember well, although there is no trace of gold as well.
The blade looks a rough Bugis one to me, see the kembang kacang carved out from the gandik especially.
From memory the seller said that the piece was originally purchased in the seventies and I am somewhat optimistic that the sheath is made from silver alloy, you will check upon receipt how it reacts to a silver cleaning cloth, if it remains dull then it is not silver.....
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Silver is very easy to test.

You simply buy a little bottle of silver test fluid from a jewelers supply house, it will cost a few dollars.

You scratch the surface of the metal clean in a spot where it won't be noticed and apply a drop of the fluid. If the metal turns red, you have silver. If the drop stays brown or yellow you have something else.

Beats agonising over whether something is silver or not.

Incidentally, silver has become horribly expensive during the past couple of years. It really pays to know whether something truly is silver, particularly something as big as this keris dress.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
Thanks for the tip.
Indeed the raw silver prices increased 7 fold (from about 5$ to 35$/oz) in 10 years!
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

The blade looks a rough Bugis one to me, see the kembang kacang carved out from the gandik especially.

I noted this more as a Bugis influence than to see this as a true Bugis blade. This looks to have been made by a very unskilled smith who may have seen Bugis blades or was trying to make something like it from memory.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I noted this more as a Bugis influence than to see this as a true Bugis blade. This looks to have been made by a very unskilled smith who may have seen Bugis blades or was trying to make something like it from memory.

Yes, Bugis or not this blade is not a masterpiece, I propose to wait the better pictures from Gaetan for making a more accurate assessment.
Regards

[Jean]

By the way please compare this kris with the one shown by Marcokeris in the thread "Sulawesi (Toraja)? keris" dated 4th December 2010, I think that they bear some similarities.
Regards

[Gee1971]

@ JEAN, effectivement, je me suis trompé:

"fourreau en bois recouvert d'argent doré selon les spécialistes, très belle qualité
lame damasquinée en moins bon état que le fourreau"

I was mistaken, the seller was talking about golden plated silver...

[David]

Originally Posted by Gee1971

I was mistaken, the seller was talking about golden plated silver...

I'd say you still need to get this tested. I don't see any gold plating in your photos and it's difficult to tell if this is real silver or merely some white metal. If it tests for silver and/or gold at least that would account for a bit of the high price you paid.

[Gee1971]

Hello, I receive the Keris here are some pics

[Gee1971]

some pics more

[Gee1971]

Hello,

I've been to a jeweller, he sand a little part the scabbard and told to me it is made of silver. He told meThe light gold coulour is due to a gold bath with local "homemade" methods. cause of the increase of silver and artwork, he said the price I paid id good, he estimates the value around 2000 euros coz of the value of silver and the artwork. H estimated it's not an antique piece but a nice copy.
the kabbalistic signs are maybe the astrological them of the first owner; the arab writings are the names of Mohamed companions.

[Jean]

Ouch, the silver pieces look expensive in France!

[David]

Originally Posted by Gee1971

he estimates the value around 2000 euros coz of the value of silver and the artwork.

Does this jeweler know anything about keris?

[asomotif]

The value estimated by the jeweller is probably based on western wages.
Worksmen in Indonesia are slightly cheaper.

Ps, the keris does look better than on the sellers pictures.
But the artwork is not of a high standard imho

[Gee1971]

The jeweller told to me the price of silver increased a lot and even prices aren't the same in Asia, he took a calculator with the estimate weight of the sheet of silver on keris and showed me a certain value with the cost of the artwork, he explained the different gold plated methods and blade fabrications, it seems have a certain experience, he told me he is now retired and served in the french commandos in Algeria but he had a critical view about the fabrication, found a little suspect the colour at the biginning and finally, he told me I haven't loose my money.

[David]

Originally Posted by Gee1971

The jeweller told to me the price of silver increased a lot and even prices aren't the same in Asia, he took a calculator with the estimate weight of the sheet of silver on keris and showed me a certain value with the cost of the artwork, he explained the different gold plated methods and blade fabrications, it seems have a certain experience, he told me he is now retired and served in the french commandos in Algeria but he had a critical view about the fabrication, found a little suspect the colour at the biginning and finally, he told me I haven't loose my money.

Gaëtan, if you are comfortable with this gentleman's appraisal of your blade and it makes you feel good about your purchase, that is a fine thing. We try very hard not to get into money values too deeply here on the forum and in fact it is part of the rules here that we do not do appraisals openly in the forums. Ultimately it is a matter of weather or not YOU like your keris, not the nuts & bolts value of the thing. But i do think that it is probably important that you understand what some members are trying to get across to you so that in the future you can be a more informed buyer. Though the sheath work is extensive and not unpleasant, this is not what i would consider high quality metal work for this area. Given that i would suggest that your jeweler is out of his field when he has appraised the value of the workmanship. I cannot image that the sheet silver here weighs up to enough to account for much of his appraised value so it would seem that he is putting a great deal of the value on this workmanship. I don't know what your jeweler knows about keris from his experiences as a French commando in Algeria, , but this blade adds very little value to the silver weight of this keris. It is fairly low grade village work. There is nothing wrong with that and i own many keris which are not of very high quality which i quite enjoy. But it is, i believe, important to know what you've got before continuing on with your collecting. We all try to justify the money we spend on these things (especially to out wives ). We all have some bad purchases in our collecting history as well, of this i am sure. Some of my bad purchases i still enjoy (even if i wish i hadn't paid as much for them as i did ), but by recognizing them as bad purchases i have learned lessons that i hopefully will not have to repeat.