Keris Holders

[cecas24]

Hello everyone,

I am a graduate student at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, in Birmingham, AL. I am writing a thesis on balinese keris holders and holders in general and would appreciate any expert knowledge anyone may have.
Any images or examples would be greatly appreciated as well.

I do have a few examples courtesy of the Berman Museum in Anniston, AL and from Farrow Fine Art gallery.

Any notes or resource materials on determination of style, country of origin, and age, as well as character affiliations would be helpful.
I am also trying to compose an appendix listing the various collectors who have holders in their collection here in the US. If you own any Balinese or Javanese holders please let me know. I DO NOT have to publish your name if you do not wish- a simple "Private collector- Albany, New York" and the number of holders you have in your collection would be tremendously helpful.
Also, if anyone knows of any galleries or museums that have holders in their collections please be kind enough to pass the information along.

I have inserted an image of some of the holders I am studying, the center and right figures are of particular interest to me, if anyone could tell me anything about these figures I'd appreciate any and all information!

Thanks,
CC

[Rick]

Hi CC, welcome to the warung .

The middle stand may be a depiction of Rangda; the hairy one on the left I find most intriguing; the right hand one could be Hanuman but also might not be; need to see whether that one has a tail .

Here is a picture of two Javanese keris holders and a glimpse of a balinese carving of Hanuman wrestling a Naga .

[cecas24]

Thanks for your response Rick!
That Hanuman sculpture is fascinating. For my appendix, do you mind giving me your location (city, state) as a collector who owns holders?
Also, did you get your holders from anywhere in the states or did you order from overseas?

[A. G. Maisey]

This synchs nicely with our togogan thread.

Bali keris stands are togogs too, just bigger ones.

I'll put up a few pics later today.

I reckon you could put money on it that the monkey stand is supposed to be Hanuman.

Cecas, your request for information is a bit like a "what is the nature of the universe" type question. If I may suggest, perhaps you could present some carefully composed specific questions, then some of us may be able to present possible answers, or at least point you in a direction that will assist.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by cecas24

Thanks for your response Rick!
That Hanuman sculpture is fascinating. For my appendix, do you mind giving me your location (city, state) as a collector who owns holders?
Also, did you get your holders from anywhere in the states or did you order from overseas?

Overseas except for Hanuman who came from an eBay Seller in the U.S. .

Location ?
You'll have to look up my coordinates; they're listed .

I have another Javan keris board; I'll try to hunt up a picture .

[A. G. Maisey]

Hanuman

[A. G. Maisey]

A bhuta

[A. G. Maisey]

The Demon Frog.

Representing?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[A. G. Maisey]

Twalen and Mwerdah.

[David]

Hi Cecas, welcome to the forum. You thesis sounds very interesting. I hope that once it is finished you will be able to prvide a link where we can all read it.
I have 5 of these Bali style keris holders. Three of them are very new, but nicely carved little bald men with beautific smiles on their face (buddha?) that are very similar except for their body positions. Probably by the same artist or "family" of artists. I also have a Hanuman that might be from the 70s or 80s (hard to tell age on these) and an unidentifiedcrouching fellow who i quite like, probably about the same age. When i get a chance i will see if i can photograph them.
I also display with a few different ploncons and blawongs.
BTW, please don't take this personally as i am sure your intentions are sincere, but i personally don't think it a very good idea for collectors with collections of any worth to give out their names and locations. The internet has very big ears and you might be surprised where your information might end up.

[cecas24]

Ahh yes, to broad a question...
I will provide a few specific questions for holders in general to start.

#1) I was told by a collector in California that Balinese Kris holders always have square bottoms-Does anyone know this to be -False?

#2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders)

#3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?)

#4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection?

In response to "The Demon Frog", I have discovered in many cases the frog is a substitute for the tuber of the lotus flower. Then when a kris is placed in the stand, the shaft is to represent the lotus stalk. From there I have read that the meaning is purely symbolic with references to the male and female principles, magically united and thus forming the origin of all creation.
A Holder very similar to this is found in the Gerog Tillman Collection at the Tropenmuseum in Amsterdam.
I also found this interesting little number on ebay-

[cecas24]

David, In response to,
BTW, please don't take this personally as i am sure your intentions are sincere, but i personally don't think it a very good idea for collectors with collections of any worth to give out their names and locations. The internet has very big ears and you might be surprised where your information might end up.

Completely understood! For those worried about your privacy, I still maintain that you do not have to give your name- just a location(and not a specific address- if you want to just throw out a state that is cool with me), number, and types of holders you own. Of course if you do not want to post it within a thread, (which is truly understandable-there are a bunch of crazies out in the world) please feel free to send it to me directly,
you can reach me at cecas24@aol.com or garfield08@juno.com.


I would love any images you have of your holders David, especially Hanuman. Comparing the various ones I have seen is very helpful in relation to artistic style.
Thanks so much!

[Kiai Carita]

And not all demons are Rahwana.

I have been meaning to say this since reading the togogan thread a few weeks back. Not all apes are Hanuman, and in Bali, Sugriwa and Subali (both red and kings), as well as Anila (blue) are also very popular characters from the Ramayana who are often seen popping up in folk art.

Hanuman should be white and have a) the kuku pancanaka - large thumb nail (like a kerambit) and b) the poleng chequered sarong.

Demons / raksasa are in my observations, often Kumbakarna, rather than Rahwana. Kumbakarna is Rahwana's patriotic brother and a favorit character amongst the kesatria caste.

Warm regards,
Bram

[Rick]

Who is this fellow ?

[A. G. Maisey]

Agreed Bram.

Agreed 125%.

And what makes it even more confusing is that the people who produce these carvings often, very, very often will produce a figure that is a mixture of characteristics, or that is clearly a particular character, but incorrectly represented in accordance with defined characteristics of the character.

Another thing that the carvers do is to use various features or characteristics from traditional characters, and weave these features and characteristics into something new. If this "something new" is a good seller, it becomes copied by other carvers, and before long you've got something that everybody, including the carvers themselves, think is traditional, but really is not.

Then there are the dictates of material:- the carver will have a form in his mind, and he will alter that form to fit the material he has to work with.

Many years ago a man who was an authority on South East Asian and primitive art, and whose opinion was respected across the world, commented to me that often the only person who knew what a particular figure was supposed to represent was the carver, or perhaps in some cases, the person who placed the order with the carver. This man's comments were not specific to Bali, but were addressed as a generality to S.E. Asian art, including the areas of primitive art. I am very inclined to agree with this opinion.

In the case of Bali, since probably about the 1920's, there has been so much input from outside sources to Balinese artistic pursuits, that it is sometimes a little bit difficult to identify those things that could be considered to be Bali asli, and those things that are a product of Balinese thought, technique, and skill that have absorbed influences from outside of Bali. This is not to say that such things are not truly Balinese:- if we look at the span of Balinese life and art, we find that throughout history the Balinese people have accepted and incorporated into their society, and into their culture, ideas from outside Bali. This is evidence of the vibrant and robust nature of Balinese art, that something can be taken from a different source, and incorporated into the local vocabulary----but it does sometimes make it a wee bit difficult to identify exactly what the artist was intent on portraying.

If we were to consider only those blossoms of Balinese art which bloomed prior to, say, 1920 , we could very probably determine with some degree of certainty what character a particular figure was intended to represent, however, since probably 99.9% of all Balinese carved figures that we encounter have been produced since 1920, we really would be a little self indulgent if we thought that our opinions could be considered to be anything other than merely opinions.

[A. G. Maisey]

Cecas, herewith my interpolated responses to your questions.

I do not hold myself forth to be an authority in this particular field, but I do have very lengthy experience with the subject, and what I write below should be considered to be opinion based upon + 50 years experience. This does not mean that this opinion is incontrovertibly correct.

#1) I was told by a collector in California that Balinese Kris holders always have square bottoms-Does anyone know this to be -False?

False.
See the photos I have posted; these are all recent carvings, the oldest is only about 35 years old, but I have seen much older holders that have both square and round bases.

#2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders)

It is difficult, if not impossible to find holders that have not been produced with the tourist market in mind. Yes, certainly they may be produced for local buyers as well, but since the biggest market sector in this field is people from outside Bali, the requirements of these people must take precedence. Bear this in mind:- if a carver puts his time into something, he needs to sell it; if he limits his market to only local buyers he and his family will starve to death.


#3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?)

The basic principle in Balinese thought is that it is the creation of the work that is important, not its preservation. Thus, if an image of Ganesha is created, Ganesha has been honoured by being created:- preservation of that creation is not important. The constant renewal of shrines and temples is evidence of devotion, not the attempt to retain forever something that has already been created. Because of this cultural mindset, it is very seldom that we will encounter truly old examples of Balinese artistic endeavour in Bali itself.This applies most particularly to those things that could be considered as household items, or as folk art. Combine the mindset with tropical weather and rapacious insects that can destroy a piece of wood almost overnight, and the end result is that we need to look for old examples of Balinese art outside Bali itself. You may find Urs Ramseyer's "The Art and Culture of Bali" to be useful; several older keris holders are shown in this book, I don't think the dates are given, but their location is given, so it might be possible to ascertain a date.

#4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection?

Cecas, your interest is apparently exclusive to keris holders extant in the US. You should be aware that I am in Australia, as are the keris holders of which I have provided photos.

In response to "The Demon Frog", I have discovered in many cases the frog is a substitute for the tuber of the lotus flower. Then when a kris is placed in the stand, the shaft is to represent the lotus stalk. From there I have read that the meaning is purely symbolic with references to the male and female principles, magically united and thus forming the origin of all creation.

Interpretation of iconographic motifs can be a very dangerous pursuit.Most particularly so in respect of iconographic motifs that originate in a culture and time frame that varies from our own.

In respect of the beautiful Green Lady in the post of 19 May, I think that possibly she may be able to be interpreted as Bhatari Durga, rather than Rangda.

[TVV]

#4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection?

If I remember correctly, there is a holder or two in the Asian Art Museum in San Francisco (along with some nice keris).

[asomotif]

I don not own any keris holders, but never the less have some knowlegde to share.
IMHO there are keris holders that appear to be from bali, but the hole in it is sometimes even to small to fit the smallest of javanese keris.
For me that is an indication that these are made for tourist / export market.

About nine years ago I bought a wooden statue of a chinese looking boy, laying on his back with his hands behind his head.
With his feet he was playing with a bal.
He was wearing only a jacket and no trousers.
The space between his legs was the perfect sice to hold a balinese keris that would than lean aways from the boy in such a way that the boy was looking at the keris.
The statue was not old, but well made.
Sad enough I was not interested in keris at that time and I sold it again.

I have seen more examples of chinese boys as keris holders.
Any info on that from other forumites ?

Good luck and best regards,
Willem

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by cecas24

...#2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders)

#3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?)

I am not sure whether this keris holder was dating further back than 1920 or not. This figure is probably Anggada -- ape-human in Ramayana story, the only son of Resi Subali and Dewi Tara -- and not the figure of Anoman...

About Anggada. When Anggada was still infant, his father Resi Subali was dead by the arrow of Ramawijaya -- during Subali and his brother Sugriwa were quarelling to get Dewi Tara (mother of Anggada). Anggada then grew up with Sugriwa, who later married to Dewi Tara.

This (ape-human) quarrels between two brothers (Subali vs Sugriwa) in Ramayana story, were also a "power struggle" to seize the reign in Guakiskenda -- Kingdom of the apes...

[A. G. Maisey]

Willem, over the years I have had many Bali keris holders, and most of these had quite small holes to accept the keris. I used to have the same opinion that you hold, that is, that these holders were made for foreign consumption. However during the last perhaps 5 years I have obtained six Bali keris holders that were definitely old and that were obtained in circumstances that were not conducive to the theory of manufacture for foreign consumption.

These holders also had small holes, in fact the oldest holder, age judged on known history and physical appearance, had a hole that would not have accepted any keris.

I strongly suspect that most Bali keris holders have always been made with a small hole, the final size being left to the buyer to carve out, according to his own requirements.

If this is so, it would be in line with many Balinese objects made for local consumption, where the final finishing is left to the buyer, and not done by the specialist craftsman.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

I am not sure whether this keris holder was dating further back than 1920 or not. This figure is probably Anggada -- ape-human in Ramayana story, the only son of Resi Subali and Dewi Tara -- and not the figure of Anoman...

Dear Cecas,

Why not Anoman? Based on Ramayana story (wayang performance is still living in villages in Central and East Jawa Indonesia until nowadays), Anoman is an ape-human which has all white fur. While Anggada, reddish fur. And the characteristic differrence you may look at the "nail". Anoman -- like Bima too -- has a very specific "weapon-nail" named "kuku pancanaka". Only Anoman and Bima (in Jawa also called as Werkudara, or Bimasena) which have such "kuku pancanaka" in Wayang. (Pls regard the graphic picture below, Anoman with long-pointed nail and the other is Anggada)

Anoman is the son of Bathara Guru (the highest god in wayang) and Dewi Anjani... Actually Dewi Anjani is a goddess. But transformed in ape-form, when Bathara Guru fell in love with her. After bearing Anoman, the ape-woman Anjani transformed again as a goddess...

I hope this humble information won't disturb you...

[asomotif]

I strongly suspect that most Bali keris holders have always been made with a small hole, the final size being left to the buyer to carve out, according to his own requirements.

thanks again for sharing your extensive knowledge and experience !
sounds so logical.

[asomotif]

I found this little lady.
approx 35 cms high but capable of carrying a big balinese if needed.

Any suggestions on who she is ?

[Jussi M.]

[David]

A well placed, if questionably spelled, bump Jussi.
Here's my Hanuman which i never got around to posting when this thread was fresh.

[asomotif]

Good plan bmuping this one up agian...

I have been told this is Twalen. is it ?

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Good plan bmuping this one up agian...

I have been told this is Twalen. is it ?

Could be Willem, but he's a lovely fellow anyway.

[Rick]

I love the stuff I get to see on this forum !
Great ensemble Willem .

[asomotif]

I am writing a thesis on balinese keris holders and holders in general and would appreciate any expert knowledge anyone may have.

BTW, How about the thesis of Cecas ?

Can we have a peek at the thesis ?

Would love to see some more examples of kerisholders by the way.
For me keris, is just something on the side. There must be collectors on the forum with better examples ?

Best regards,
Willem

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I found this little lady.
approx 35 cms high but capable of carrying a big balinese if needed.

Any suggestions on who she is ?

Willem, i'm not convinced this is a lady at all. "She" is pretty flat-chested for a woman.