Medieval islamic sword on ebay

Valjhun · 12th October 2006, 01:01 PM

Thatone is a mystery - ebay id number 220034854621

Well I do not like it and I think that most of the members here won't like it either, but maybe I'm wrong.

Any thoughts?

S.Al-Anizi · 12th October 2006, 01:11 PM

Very interesting item, if its real. The cross on the forte looks much like the one on the coat of arms of the kingdom of Jerusalem. This sword might have been captured by an Islamic knight or common soldier, and inscribed with those inscriptions.

I do not know much about european swords, but does the blade design match the era?

Jens Nordlunde · 12th October 2006, 01:39 PM

Medieval sword, which the seller suggests to be 19th century

.

I am sure there is someone on the forum with a lot of knowledge on early European swords, but to me, it sounds strange that the blade is 77.5 cm and the hilt only 6 cm. Try to measure the width of your own hand – mine is 11 cm.

katana · 12th October 2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Medieval sword, which the seller suggests to be 19th century

.

, it sounds strange that the blade is 77.5 cm and the hilt only 6 cm. Try to measure the width of your own hand – mine is 11 cm.

Scaling the picture up... the distance between the cross guard and pommel is approx. 10cms.
Still, as Lens has pointed out, seems strange that the Medieval period lasted so long and the seller cannot measure (or type?) accurately.

However it looks more convincing than the other 'crusader' swords we have seen

Rick · 12th October 2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Medieval sword, which the seller suggests to be 19th century

.

I guess the buyer cannot cry 'foul' with such a description.
If by chance this is a Medieval sword it sold for very small money.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th October 2006, 09:37 PM

So Rick, what is your hand width when holding a sword hilt?
Please don't say two feet and a half!
Jens

joshualayne · 12th October 2006, 09:44 PM

I interpreted the 6cm to be the width of the blade at the base (hilt)

I also agree that the hilt itself looks usable (and I have decently-sized hands)

j.

Rick · 12th October 2006, 10:36 PM

Two and a half feet is the size of my.............................. hat .

Grip is 11.4 cm approximately .

ariel · 12th October 2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Two and a half feet is the size of my.............................. hat .

Grip is 11.4 cm approximately .

Not vice versa?

Rick · 12th October 2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Not vice versa?

Wiseass

ariel · 13th October 2006, 04:17 PM

Sorry, just couldn't resist: you gave such a good opening

Rick · 13th October 2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Sorry, just couldn't resist: you gave such a good opening

I'm well known for doing that Ariel .

At any rate; back to the sword in question; if indeed the grip length is 10cm then that would seem an acceptable size.

True medieval swords are such rarities these days and the market is filled with fakes; this may explain why this piece went for short money .

If it is genuine then someone got a hell of a deal .

ALEX · 13th October 2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

If it is genuine then someone got a hell of a deal .

Rick,

I must notice that it has not been sold for the reason of not meeting the reserve price.

Also, how one can tell of authenticity of a sword like this without physically seeing it (unless it's wootz, of course)? Is it even possible?

ariel · 13th October 2006, 09:29 PM

Didn't Lee show some Alexandria arsenal crusaders' swords at Timonium? He may be the best person to consult.
Personally, I am puzzled about the evenness of the edges: this sword is quite rusty and shouldn't the edges be "eaten away" some more?

ALEX · 13th October 2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... shouldn't the edges be "eaten away" some more?

Good point Ariel! There are some nicks on the blade, and mostly too close to the hilt, but the edges look fairly smooth indeed.

Tim Simmons · 13th October 2006, 09:38 PM

I do not know much about these swords but the pommel alarms me then the guard. The biggest thing that gets me is,- If I had a genuine medieval sword or anything truely rare I would not be selling it on ebay. I think the answer must lay near there.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th October 2006, 09:57 PM

Yes Tim, This also made me wonder

.

Lee · 14th October 2006, 05:15 PM

Note that the seller closed the auction without selling the sword, owing to "an error in the listing." For sure. If this is genuine, it is worth large money and the seller probably realized he was in the wrong venue. There is presently a serious problem with fake medieval swords and one really must examine these swords up close and in person to separate treasure from trash.

Alex's question:
Also, how one can tell of authenticity of a sword like this without physically seeing it (unless it's wootz, of course)? Is it even possible?

My answer:
Very, very rarely one can see a picture and 'know' something is right. I was sent pictures of the Alexandria arsenal sword that came up improperly described at Waddington's in Toronto last year (but with no details on where and when the sale was being held) for my opinion and I was sure enough it was right that I would have have risked significant money on it. But 99% of the time, you must examine up close and in person.

B.I · 14th October 2006, 11:19 PM

a friend of mine examined the sword before the owner decided to list it on ebay. he was of the opinion that it was 19thC. i dont know whether his assessment was right, but i am convincing myself that he was correct and the sword was not early. the alternative is too distressing! the sword looks right, but as lee says, there is no way of knowing unless you hold it yourself. the inscriptions seem a little light, and i would have expected it to be deeper, but that is speculation and me looking for fault.
you can sleep easy on the waddington sword, lee. it was genuine, and fetched a high price at auction, and resold afterwards for even more. it was a sleeper, but enough people were aware of it so the price fetched under hammer was in the right ball-park.

eftihis · 1st February 2007, 07:59 AM

Does anyone kept the photo of this sword? I think that i may have an answer.
If somebody has, post it as a photo (the ebay link has deleted the photo)

12th October 2006, 01:01 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Medieval islamic sword on ebay Thatone is a mystery - ebay id number 220034854621 Well I do not like it and I think that most of the members here won't like it either, but maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts?

12th October 2006, 01:39 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Medieval sword, which the seller suggests to be 19th century. I am sure there is someone on the forum with a lot of knowledge on early European swords, but to me, it sounds strange that the blade is 77.5 cm and the hilt only 6 cm. Try to measure the width of your own hand – mine is 11 cm.

12th October 2006, 09:44 PM	#7
joshualayne Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA Posts: 14	6cm - width of blade at hilt? I interpreted the 6cm to be the width of the blade at the base (hilt) I also agree that the hilt itself looks usable (and I have decently-sized hands) j.

12th October 2006, 10:36 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Hi Jens Two and a half feet is the size of my.............................. hat . Grip is 11.4 cm approximately .

13th October 2006, 09:57 PM	#17
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes Tim, This also made me wonder.

12th October 2006, 01:11 PM	#2
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Very interesting item, if its real. The cross on the forte looks much like the one on the coat of arms of the kingdom of Jerusalem. This sword might have been captured by an Islamic knight or common soldier, and inscribed with those inscriptions. I do not know much about european swords, but does the blade design match the era?

12th October 2006, 09:37 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	So Rick, what is your hand width when holding a sword hilt? Please don't say two feet and a half! Jens

13th October 2006, 04:17 PM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry, just couldn't resist: you gave such a good opening

13th October 2006, 09:29 PM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Didn't Lee show some Alexandria arsenal crusaders' swords at Timonium? He may be the best person to consult. Personally, I am puzzled about the evenness of the edges: this sword is quite rusty and shouldn't the edges be "eaten away" some more?

13th October 2006, 09:38 PM	#16
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I do not know much about these swords but the pommel alarms me then the guard. The biggest thing that gets me is,- If I had a genuine medieval sword or anything truely rare I would not be selling it on ebay. I think the answer must lay near there.

14th October 2006, 05:15 PM	#18
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Note that the seller closed the auction without selling the sword, owing to "an error in the listing." For sure. If this is genuine, it is worth large money and the seller probably realized he was in the wrong venue. There is presently a serious problem with fake medieval swords and one really must examine these swords up close and in person to separate treasure from trash. Alex's question: Also, how one can tell of authenticity of a sword like this without physically seeing it (unless it's wootz, of course)? Is it even possible? My answer: Very, very rarely one can see a picture and 'know' something is right. I was sent pictures of the Alexandria arsenal sword that came up improperly described at Waddington's in Toronto last year (but with no details on where and when the sale was being held) for my opinion and I was sure enough it was right that I would have have risked significant money on it. But 99% of the time, you must examine up close and in person.

14th October 2006, 11:19 PM	#19
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	a friend of mine examined the sword before the owner decided to list it on ebay. he was of the opinion that it was 19thC. i dont know whether his assessment was right, but i am convincing myself that he was correct and the sword was not early. the alternative is too distressing! the sword looks right, but as lee says, there is no way of knowing unless you hold it yourself. the inscriptions seem a little light, and i would have expected it to be deeper, but that is speculation and me looking for fault. you can sleep easy on the waddington sword, lee. it was genuine, and fetched a high price at auction, and resold afterwards for even more. it was a sleeper, but enough people were aware of it so the price fetched under hammer was in the right ball-park.

1st February 2007, 07:59 AM	#20
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Does anyone kept the photo of this sword? I think that i may have an answer. If somebody has, post it as a photo (the ebay link has deleted the photo)