Toa/stick sword vs. Pisau Raut

fearn · 29th January 2006, 10:34 PM

Hi All,

Technical question:

Can someone explain to me the Toa or stick sword (from Solor Island, Indonesia), is different from the pisau raut, especially the oversized ones that have popped up here on occasion?

A Toa just sold on oriental arms at this link.

F

Rick · 29th January 2006, 11:05 PM

Fearn , just curious but do you remember the price of this toa ?
When I saw it it was simply marked sold .
From what I have gathered toas are seldom seen weapons .

(someone please correct me if I'm wrong with this part below)
I suspect that the large pisau rauts were used for splitting rattan and the long haft rested on the shoulder while the two hands held the knife nearer the blade for control .

fearn · 30th January 2006, 12:15 AM

Hi Rick,

I didn't see the price either, which meant that someone got to it fast. I looked at the website early last week and didn't see the toa. At the end of the week, it was sold.

Thanks for the info. I'm basically wondering whether the toa is essentially a weaponized pisau raut--basically, it primary functions as a weapon--or whether it is simply a local variant of the pisau raut, and it's primary function is as a tool. If that distinction makes sense....

F

Rick · 30th January 2006, 12:33 AM

Whereas the pisau raut is intended as a tool but could be used as a weapon (most anything with an edge can) , I'm really not sure if the toa is a combination axe / weapon .

Given the weight and size of the blade and the two handed grip the toa would be a most efficient weapon and a good jungle axe too ; very much like the panabas .
My example is 34.5 inches overall with 20 inches of haft and 14.5 inches of heavy blade .

Okay , I've been through Van Zonneveld's Traditional Weapons and after reading his description of the toa I get the impression that it is a fighting sword from his text .

He also notes that most toas have a horn ferrule with metal being the rare exception ; IMO horn would not stand up very well to use on hard materials such as wood but it would be acceptable if used on softer materials like one's fellow man .

Rick · 30th January 2006, 05:03 AM

bump for edit of previous post .

fearn · 30th January 2006, 10:34 PM

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the info.

While I agree that horn might be a bit soft, Looking at your toa and the original one on oriental arms, I'm a bit confused. It looks like the handle is segments of horn, strung together on....what? The tang of the sword? If so, the whole thing might be sturdy enough to go hacking, wood as well as heads.

Admittedly, I know nothing about the island of Solor, except that it's small and apparently had a Portuguese whaling port on it (if one believes wikipedia). Just at a guess, the "jungle" that these toas would hack through could easily be second growth scrub, rather than great big trees.

Interesting blade.

F

Rick · 31st January 2006, 12:09 AM

It's hard to figure out the actual haft construction . The area covered with red cloth on my example is wood .

If I were to guess I would say that the tang of the blade is probably not more than half of the blade's length and that the entire core of the haft is wood with tubular horn sections covering the core (I can find no seams on any of the horn sections) the butt end is an ovoid metal (brass?) plate secured by two nails or rivets of the same material .

Again , Mr. Van Z. makes no reference to this being a multi use implement but simply says that : " both hands are used when striking " and " The heavy broad blade has the effect of an axe and can be lethal ."

I would like to know more about this interesting sword .

29th January 2006, 10:34 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Toa/stick sword vs. Pisau Raut Hi All, Technical question: Can someone explain to me the Toa or stick sword (from Solor Island, Indonesia), is different from the pisau raut, especially the oversized ones that have popped up here on occasion? A Toa just sold on oriental arms at this link. F

30th January 2006, 12:33 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Whereas the pisau raut is intended as a tool but could be used as a weapon (most anything with an edge can) , I'm really not sure if the toa is a combination axe / weapon . Given the weight and size of the blade and the two handed grip the toa would be a most efficient weapon and a good jungle axe too ; very much like the panabas . My example is 34.5 inches overall with 20 inches of haft and 14.5 inches of heavy blade . Okay , I've been through Van Zonneveld's Traditional Weapons and after reading his description of the toa I get the impression that it is a fighting sword from his text . He also notes that most toas have a horn ferrule with metal being the rare exception ; IMO horn would not stand up very well to use on hard materials such as wood but it would be acceptable if used on softer materials like one's fellow man . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 30th January 2006 at 05:01 AM. Reason: Further thoughts

29th January 2006, 11:05 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Fearn , just curious but do you remember the price of this toa ? When I saw it it was simply marked sold . From what I have gathered toas are seldom seen weapons . (someone please correct me if I'm wrong with this part below) I suspect that the large pisau rauts were used for splitting rattan and the long haft rested on the shoulder while the two hands held the knife nearer the blade for control .

30th January 2006, 12:15 AM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Rick, I didn't see the price either, which meant that someone got to it fast. I looked at the website early last week and didn't see the toa. At the end of the week, it was sold. Thanks for the info. I'm basically wondering whether the toa is essentially a weaponized pisau raut--basically, it primary functions as a weapon--or whether it is simply a local variant of the pisau raut, and it's primary function is as a tool. If that distinction makes sense.... F

30th January 2006, 05:03 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	bump for edit of previous post .

30th January 2006, 10:34 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Rick, Thanks for the info. While I agree that horn might be a bit soft, Looking at your toa and the original one on oriental arms, I'm a bit confused. It looks like the handle is segments of horn, strung together on....what? The tang of the sword? If so, the whole thing might be sturdy enough to go hacking, wood as well as heads. Admittedly, I know nothing about the island of Solor, except that it's small and apparently had a Portuguese whaling port on it (if one believes wikipedia). Just at a guess, the "jungle" that these toas would hack through could easily be second growth scrub, rather than great big trees. Interesting blade. F

31st January 2006, 12:09 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	It's hard to figure out the actual haft construction . The area covered with red cloth on my example is wood . If I were to guess I would say that the tang of the blade is probably not more than half of the blade's length and that the entire core of the haft is wood with tubular horn sections covering the core (I can find no seams on any of the horn sections) the butt end is an ovoid metal (brass?) plate secured by two nails or rivets of the same material . Again , Mr. Van Z. makes no reference to this being a multi use implement but simply says that : " both hands are used when striking " and " The heavy broad blade has the effect of an axe and can be lethal ." I would like to know more about this interesting sword .