A Fascinating Indian Shield....What is its Symbolic Significance???

Runjeet Singh · 26th October 2014, 10:51 PM

Hi Charles,

This shield has been bugging me all week, I have seen similar but couldn't remember where - well I had chance to go through my books, and found the one I had been thinking of, in fact there are at least three - all in the Royal Collection, at Sandringham.

Pics attached of one, they are described as blued steel, decorated with gold-damascening and riveted profile cut representations of wild animals; the field surrounded by four bosses encrusted with gold. Punjab province (Gujarat or Sialcot type) 19thC. Two are said to have been presented by H.H the Maharaja of Kapurthala, and a third presented by HH Maharaja of Bundelkhand. The latter said to be have an applied band of loop and knot pattern, which in my experience can be in the form of a snake.

Now we have a point of reference, and we all agree yours is a beautiful shield, we now need someone of authority to comment on any religious / symbolical significance there may lie in the design.

Hope that helps - Runjeet.

spiral · 26th October 2014, 11:41 PM

Further to Runjeets excellent post, recall & research, about Charles rather wonderful & rare shield.

There is a website that lists many items in the Royal collection.

The photos will magnify...

There actually 4 listed Maharaja of Kapurthala shields with riveted animals.

The Maharaja of Bundelkhand shield. Rather Different style but I love it!...

As an aside Here a link to the British royal familys kukris on the website.. . But the search function for anything will work from there...

Its a great website for collectors of many pieces...

{Just type in Ruby, Ivory, sword whatever... Thieve got it all...}

spiral

Link to King & Queen of Englands favourite keeper kukri!

spiral · 26th October 2014, 11:45 PM

If you right click the banned pics, click properties, click copy , then paste that in your browser address bar you will be able to see the images, that will help...

Shame its so complicated......

Guess that's the forum software?

Obviously I don't have the authority to directly & permanently copy them to this website...

spiral

CharlesS · 28th October 2014, 10:38 PM

Thanks so much for the input on these guys. This should certainly square away the origins of the shield. I think mine is a little more complex than those shown, and likely larger.

Note, also, that mine lacks the central ornament in favor of a similar shape in koftgari.

This may very well be a hunting shield and perhaps I am reading too much into it, but I believe there is more symbolism there than hunting.

Hopefully we can learn more.

Thanks again for all the input and references.

spiral · 29th October 2014, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Thanks so much for the input on these guys. This should certainly square away the origins of the shield. I think mine is a little more complex than those shown, and likely larger..

Thanks again for all the input and references.

Glad it was of interest..

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

I do not understand why you would have a problem posting some images.

That's ok that you don't understand...

Perhaps you could post the rest of them as well...

you know the old saying about if you start a job?

Spiral

estcrh · 30th October 2014, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Glad it was of interest..

That's ok that you don't understand...

Perhaps you could post the rest of them as well...

you know the old saying about if you start a job?

Spiral

No really, are you afraid of something? Anyway my edited images are much better than the originals, unfortunately the very small size of images allowed here deminishes their usefulness but the museum (The Royal Colection) should be ashamed to post such bad images.

spiral · 30th October 2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

No really, are you afraid of something? .

Stomach Cancer & sharks in the bath...

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Anyway my edited images are much better than the originals, unfortunately the very small size of images allowed here deminishes their usefulness but the museum (The Royal Colection) should be ashamed to post such bad images.

That's good thank you!

spiral

estcrh · 29th October 2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

If you right click the banned pics, click properties, click copy , then paste that in your browser address bar you will be able to see the images, that will help...

Shame its so complicated......

Guess that's the forum software?

Obviously I don't have the authority to directly & permanently copy them to this website...

spiral

I do not understand why you would have a problem posting some images.

A. G. Maisey · 29th October 2014, 09:48 PM

Charles, I have been following the comments in this thread, not because I have any interest in the shields shown, but because I do necessarily have a very high interest in symbolism, especially Hindu symbolism, by virtue of my interest in the keris.

Rather than use 5,000 words on the "shotgun" approach to your questions, I would like to suggest that you may care to investigate several things which I am certain will provide you with an answer:-

the place, nature and purpose of animals in the Hindu world view

the use of animals as vehicles for deities

the incarnations of deities

the use of animals in Hindu decorative art

For a long time books such as Dowson's "Classical Dictionary of Hindu Mythology", and Rao's "Elements of Hindu Iconography" have been amongst the premier references used to answer questions such as yours, but these days Dr. Google seems to be able to provide a fast, superficial understanding of things that 40 or 50 years ago would have used at least several days in a good reference library.

26th October 2014, 10:51 PM	#1
Runjeet Singh Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwickshire, England Posts: 150	Hi Charles, This shield has been bugging me all week, I have seen similar but couldn't remember where - well I had chance to go through my books, and found the one I had been thinking of, in fact there are at least three - all in the Royal Collection, at Sandringham. Pics attached of one, they are described as blued steel, decorated with gold-damascening and riveted profile cut representations of wild animals; the field surrounded by four bosses encrusted with gold. Punjab province (Gujarat or Sialcot type) 19thC. Two are said to have been presented by H.H the Maharaja of Kapurthala, and a third presented by HH Maharaja of Bundelkhand. The latter said to be have an applied band of loop and knot pattern, which in my experience can be in the form of a snake. Now we have a point of reference, and we all agree yours is a beautiful shield, we now need someone of authority to comment on any religious / symbolical significance there may lie in the design. Hope that helps - Runjeet. Attached Images

26th October 2014, 11:41 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Further to Runjeets excellent post, recall & research, about Charles rather wonderful & rare shield. There is a website that lists many items in the Royal collection. The photos will magnify... There actually 4 listed Maharaja of Kapurthala shields with riveted animals. The Maharaja of Bundelkhand shield. Rather Different style but I love it!... As an aside Here a link to the British royal familys kukris on the website.. . But the search function for anything will work from there... Its a great website for collectors of many pieces... {Just type in Ruby, Ivory, sword whatever... Thieve got it all...} spiral Link to King & Queen of Englands favourite keeper kukri!

26th October 2014, 11:45 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	If you right click the banned pics, click properties, click copy , then paste that in your browser address bar you will be able to see the images, that will help... Shame its so complicated...... Guess that's the forum software? Obviously I don't have the authority to directly & permanently copy them to this website... spiral

28th October 2014, 10:38 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Thanks so much for the input on these guys. This should certainly square away the origins of the shield. I think mine is a little more complex than those shown, and likely larger. Note, also, that mine lacks the central ornament in favor of a similar shape in koftgari. This may very well be a hunting shield and perhaps I am reading too much into it, but I believe there is more symbolism there than hunting. Hopefully we can learn more. Thanks again for all the input and references.

29th October 2014, 09:48 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Charles, I have been following the comments in this thread, not because I have any interest in the shields shown, but because I do necessarily have a very high interest in symbolism, especially Hindu symbolism, by virtue of my interest in the keris. Rather than use 5,000 words on the "shotgun" approach to your questions, I would like to suggest that you may care to investigate several things which I am certain will provide you with an answer:- the place, nature and purpose of animals in the Hindu world view the use of animals as vehicles for deities the incarnations of deities the use of animals in Hindu decorative art For a long time books such as Dowson's "Classical Dictionary of Hindu Mythology", and Rao's "Elements of Hindu Iconography" have been amongst the premier references used to answer questions such as yours, but these days Dr. Google seems to be able to provide a fast, superficial understanding of things that 40 or 50 years ago would have used at least several days in a good reference library.