Share pics of your Spanish daggers

Atlantia · 16th September 2008, 04:52 PM

I want to compare my knife with others of the same type. Reason is, I want to see if mine is missing a 'tip' to the scabbard.
I've only seen one other on the net so far (with a faceted ball end to the scabbard) but I bet you guys have lots, so please post some pics (close ups on scabbard tip appreciated)

Regards
Gene

Atlantia · 17th September 2008, 04:03 PM

C'mon peeps!
Whenever I post anything there is always someone with loads of similar pieces (often much nicer ones!) These Spanish knives cant be rare can they?

Jim McDougall · 18th September 2008, 02:51 AM

I'm surprised there arent more responses on this Atlantia. I'd like to see more of these posted as well, and it seems there has been no shortage of response with examples in the ethnographic department.

I think that what is being missed is that while these are typically viewed as from either Albacete, or it seems also associated with Canary Islands, they also appear to have much earlier European ancestry. These cutlery items are shown in "Wallace Collection Catalogues: European Arms & Armour", Sir James Mann, 1962.....A888, 881,880, mostly in the overall profile especially the position of the haft, noting the utility function. These all seem to derive from Portugal, Spain and Italy in the general profile with a variety of other examples that are of course not that similar.

Nice example, and I'd like to know more on the attribution of this one.

All best regards,
Jim

Atlantia · 18th September 2008, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I'm surprised there arent more responses on this Atlantia. I'd like to see more of these posted as well, and it seems there has been no shortage of response with examples in the ethnographic department.

I think that what is being missed is that while these are typically viewed as from either Albacete, or it seems also associated with Canary Islands, they also appear to have much earlier European ancestry. These cutlery items are shown in "Wallace Collection Catalogues: European Arms & Armour", Sir James Mann, 1962.....A888, 881,880, mostly in the overall profile especially the position of the haft, noting the utility function. These all seem to derive from Portugal, Spain and Italy in the general profile with a variety of other examples that are of course not that similar.

Nice example, and I'd like to know more on the attribution of this one.

All best regards,
Jim

Hi Jim,
thanks for your input on this one, I was begining to think I'd been sent to Coventry! ;-)
Seeing a reply was almost a 'WOW' SETI moment for me, lol.

I think you've certainly got a point, and I've completely ignored these knives over the years, despite a passion for European arms.
They are a bit of an anachronism, a cutlery shaped fancy butchers knife. No clipped point/drop point for hunting or skinning (Yuk, thankfully), they do seem to be a fighting knife or dagger. Quite an archaic shape despite their late date, and alltogether a little too asymetic with no guard etc.
I bought this one on spec really. partly out of a liking for the seller and not wanting to have wasted his time going to view it. I thought it looked familiar, but I was thinking eastern Europe or North Africa, and early 20thC.

I've actually had quite a few Navajas over the years, but always traded them, well it's a penknife! ;-)
But this time I find I've really fallen in love with this dagger, and want to compare it with other examples.
I've googled it to the N'th degree and only found one close example.

So you can see the scabbard tip? I could make a replacement with a few more to get 'feel' from!

Regards
Gene

OAKSP · 18th September 2008, 08:22 AM

Hi, this kind of knives are type b, made in the city of Albacete in the 18th century.

Those are part of my collection.

If anyone can visit spain, there is a very nice museum in Albacete. the local Cuterly Museum in albacete created in 2.004 is going all arround Europe showing part of their nice Collection of Spanish knives and folding knives. In their collection they have the Alvarez del Peral collection and a good part of Samuel setian´s collection from Argentina.

Atlantia · 18th September 2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OAKSP

Hi, this kind of knives are type b, made in the city of Albacete in the 18th century.

Those are part of my collection.

If anyone can visit spain, there is a very nice museum in Albacete. the local Cuterly Museum in albacete created in 2.004 is going all arround Europe showing part of their nice Collection of Spanish knives and folding knives. In their collection they have the Alvarez del Peral collection and a good part of Samuel setian´s collection from Argentina.

Hola OAKSP!

Thats exactly what I was looking for. A group to compare mine with (especiallly the scabbard tip). Is it possible for you to post a larger picture please?
Thanks for sharing

Regards
Gene

P.S. can you explain the classification system for these please? (A-B?)

Atlantia · 20th September 2008, 11:59 PM

Right, well apparently I needed to search the web in spanish to find the research material on these.
OAKSP, the material I've seen all identify this type as type-A?
It seems from the singular lack of interest here (and on English language sites) that these are not widely appreciated outside of their native lands.

Shame really, they are rather nice knives.

Rick · 21st September 2008, 12:12 AM

Patience Atlantia, patience .... it's the weekend

; things are slow; many members do not check in on weekends .

Familial duties, kids etc. , y'know .

OAKSP · 22nd September 2008, 08:20 AM

Hi again !

Your are right, it is type a not b.

I have had problems for over 2 months with my computer at home and have a lot of job to do, lost mails, lost pictures, etc, etc... summer is terribly !!!

I will try to put some more pictures resized concerning to spanish knives (type a and b) and other models from different parts of Spain (Catalunya, Valencia, Aragon, Toledo and Cannary Islands).

There is a big interest on those pieces here in Spain, but they are not easy to find and also because of people are more interested on Navajas rather than knives.

I am sure Carlos, fernando and others will be more helpful than me into this matter.

Regards.

Paco.

Atlantia · 22nd September 2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Patience Atlantia, patience .... it's the weekend

; things are slow; many members do not check in on weekends .

Familial duties, kids etc. , y'know .

lol, Thanks Rick, I know..... patience... wax-on... wax-off... wax-on... wax-off....

Atlantia · 22nd September 2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OAKSP

Hi again !

Your are right, it is type a not b.

I have had problems for over 2 months with my computer at home and have a lot of job to do, lost mails, lost pictures, etc, etc... summer is terribly !!!

I will try to put some more pictures resized concerning to spanish knives (type a and b) and other models from different parts of Spain (Catalunya, Valencia, Aragon, Toledo and Cannary Islands).

There is a big interest on those pieces here in Spain, but they are not easy to find and also because of people are more interested on Navajas rather than knives.

I am sure Carlos, fernando and others will be more helpful than me into this matter.

Regards.

Paco.

Thanks Paco,
I think I am going to have to rely on yourself and other southern European members as I think these are not very popular elsewhere. I have found some good pictures by searching in spanish on the web, but some close-ups of the scabbard tips showing the brass buttons would show me what I need to copy to replace mine.
Thanks
Gene

16th September 2008, 04:52 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Share pics of your Spanish daggers I want to compare my knife with others of the same type. Reason is, I want to see if mine is missing a 'tip' to the scabbard. I've only seen one other on the net so far (with a faceted ball end to the scabbard) but I bet you guys have lots, so please post some pics (close ups on scabbard tip appreciated) Regards Gene

18th September 2008, 02:51 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	I'm surprised there arent more responses on this Atlantia. I'd like to see more of these posted as well, and it seems there has been no shortage of response with examples in the ethnographic department. I think that what is being missed is that while these are typically viewed as from either Albacete, or it seems also associated with Canary Islands, they also appear to have much earlier European ancestry. These cutlery items are shown in "Wallace Collection Catalogues: European Arms & Armour", Sir James Mann, 1962.....A888, 881,880, mostly in the overall profile especially the position of the haft, noting the utility function. These all seem to derive from Portugal, Spain and Italy in the general profile with a variety of other examples that are of course not that similar. Nice example, and I'd like to know more on the attribution of this one. All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th September 2008 at 03:01 AM.

18th September 2008, 08:22 AM	#5
OAKSP Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 21	My spanish knives Hi, this kind of knives are type b, made in the city of Albacete in the 18th century. Those are part of my collection. If anyone can visit spain, there is a very nice museum in Albacete. the local Cuterly Museum in albacete created in 2.004 is going all arround Europe showing part of their nice Collection of Spanish knives and folding knives. In their collection they have the Alvarez del Peral collection and a good part of Samuel setian´s collection from Argentina. Attached Images

17th September 2008, 04:03 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	C'mon peeps! Whenever I post anything there is always someone with loads of similar pieces (often much nicer ones!) These Spanish knives cant be rare can they?

20th September 2008, 11:59 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Right, well apparently I needed to search the web in spanish to find the research material on these. OAKSP, the material I've seen all identify this type as type-A? It seems from the singular lack of interest here (and on English language sites) that these are not widely appreciated outside of their native lands. Shame really, they are rather nice knives.

21st September 2008, 12:12 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Patience Atlantia, patience .... it's the weekend ; things are slow; many members do not check in on weekends . Familial duties, kids etc. , y'know .

22nd September 2008, 08:20 AM	#9
OAKSP Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 21	Hi again ! Your are right, it is type a not b. I have had problems for over 2 months with my computer at home and have a lot of job to do, lost mails, lost pictures, etc, etc... summer is terribly !!! I will try to put some more pictures resized concerning to spanish knives (type a and b) and other models from different parts of Spain (Catalunya, Valencia, Aragon, Toledo and Cannary Islands). There is a big interest on those pieces here in Spain, but they are not easy to find and also because of people are more interested on Navajas rather than knives. I am sure Carlos, fernando and others will be more helpful than me into this matter. Regards. Paco.