Is this from Borneo?

fernando · 10th January 2009, 11:12 PM

Lousy pictures, i know .. i am not at home; just bought the thing

.
What would the specialized forumites say about this ?
... origin veracity, name of piece, aproximate age ... you know, that type of things.
Thanks in advance
Fernando

Rick · 10th January 2009, 11:48 PM

Hi Fernando, I think this is an Indonesian spearhead; it looks like the collar at the base (metuk) may be a separate piece .

As for cultural signifigance mounted as it is ...

fernando · 11th January 2009, 02:22 AM

Thanks Rick,
You mean this piece is not a 'classic' style? not an usualy seen specimen?
Meerly a tombak mounted in an atypical way?
Horn and teeth would be the materials used ... or would the 'teeth' be worked up bone?
A weapon to be carried over the shoulder, so it seems ...
Looks some old, doesn't it ?
Any more coments ... Gentlemen ?
Fernando

Rick · 11th January 2009, 02:44 AM

Hi Fernando
You will see keris made up this way with the knotwork, teeth and painting also .

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of whether these items are culturally signifigant or not .

However I would ask this; it is a spearhead, does form follow function ?

katana · 11th January 2009, 03:05 AM

Hi Fernando and Happy New Year

,
I think Rick might be refering to something like this...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=mandau+teeth

I am intrigued with the 'bend' in the shaft and its possible function ..... even if this is a 'tourist' piece...surely it would be based on a 'local' form

The spearhead looks good....but I must admit that it is a personal view.....I have very limited knowledge of SEA weapons

....but they are fascinating

Kind Regards David

Dajak · 11th January 2009, 06:43 AM

Hi Fernando this is for sure put together in Borneo but has nothing to do with the dayaks .

Many tourist piece's are like it they have krissen,mandau's and parangs like this .

This one could be made in the 50/60/70

Ben

Freddy · 11th January 2009, 09:31 AM

My guess is that it is a good tombak blade in a 'bad' dress.

I would disassemble the piece and only keep the tombak.

Henk · 11th January 2009, 10:28 AM

Freddy,

This is a javanese tombak. The mounting is from New Guinea. But it puzzles me a bit.
Like Dajak noticed many of these pieces were assembled as mandau, keris and spears for the tourist market. The tourist pieces are easily to recognize because of the bright modern fabric paint used for the mountings.

The paint seen on this mounting seems to be the paint used on the original New guinea pieces made from natural materials. But as you said the pictures aren't of the best quality.

Don't be to hasty by throwing away these mountings.

fernando · 11th January 2009, 11:59 PM

Thank you all, Gentlemen.
These are better (?) pictures. I don't expect that they bring a better or a different conclusion, but maybe the paint quality can be discerned, Henk?
So definitely a tourist piece, Ben ? Made in the fifties/sixties ... for sure ? I had the impression it could be a bit older, although i know nothing about these things. But then the blade be the real thing ... a Javanese tombak, says Henk; surely older than the mountings, in such case ?!
Thanks for the link David; at least the shaft in this one is organic matter ... bone, in principle. And it seems as the whole extension is an entire piece; i don't feel any joints underneath the skin handle. Its form is not only bent but also twisted; i wonder whether it was manipulated by this device maker or it was the natural form of some animal horns ... not probably, i'd say.
Anyway and due to what has already been said, i am strongly considering the return of this thing and the acquisition of something else, instead. I just need a little further push, like the (re) confirmation that this piece is not old and is actually orientated to the tourist market. I don't expect any problems in returning it; the alternative piece i will buy is much more expensive, so the seller won't have much to complain.
Please go ahead, Gentlemen.
Fernando

.

fernando · 12th January 2009, 12:02 AM

rest pictures; i will delete a few afterwards, to lighten the thread file.

fernando · 12th January 2009, 11:09 PM

No further coments?
All right, no push needed. I've already made up my mind; will return the thing.
Will buy something rather different, instead. Shall post it in European Armoury Forum, next week.
Thanks all the same.
Fernando

Rick · 13th January 2009, 12:14 AM

I think you have made the right decision Fernando .

fernando · 13th January 2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I think you have made the right decision Fernando .

So i got a coment

Thanks, Rick

10th January 2009, 11:12 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Is this from Borneo? Lousy pictures, i know .. i am not at home; just bought the thing . What would the specialized forumites say about this ? ... origin veracity, name of piece, aproximate age ... you know, that type of things. Thanks in advance Fernando Attached Images

11th January 2009, 11:59 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you all, Gentlemen. These are better (?) pictures. I don't expect that they bring a better or a different conclusion, but maybe the paint quality can be discerned, Henk? So definitely a tourist piece, Ben ? Made in the fifties/sixties ... for sure ? I had the impression it could be a bit older, although i know nothing about these things. But then the blade be the real thing ... a Javanese tombak, says Henk; surely older than the mountings, in such case ?! Thanks for the link David; at least the shaft in this one is organic matter ... bone, in principle. And it seems as the whole extension is an entire piece; i don't feel any joints underneath the skin handle. Its form is not only bent but also twisted; i wonder whether it was manipulated by this device maker or it was the natural form of some animal horns ... not probably, i'd say. Anyway and due to what has already been said, i am strongly considering the return of this thing and the acquisition of something else, instead. I just need a little further push, like the (re) confirmation that this piece is not old and is actually orientated to the tourist market. I don't expect any problems in returning it; the alternative piece i will buy is much more expensive, so the seller won't have much to complain. Please go ahead, Gentlemen. Fernando . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 12th January 2009 at 11:04 PM.

12th January 2009, 12:02 AM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	rest pictures; i will delete a few afterwards, to lighten the thread file. Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 12th January 2009 at 11:05 PM.

10th January 2009, 11:48 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Fernando, I think this is an Indonesian spearhead; it looks like the collar at the base (metuk) may be a separate piece . As for cultural signifigance mounted as it is ...

11th January 2009, 02:22 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks Rick, You mean this piece is not a 'classic' style? not an usualy seen specimen? Meerly a tombak mounted in an atypical way? Horn and teeth would be the materials used ... or would the 'teeth' be worked up bone? A weapon to be carried over the shoulder, so it seems ... Looks some old, doesn't it ? Any more coments ... Gentlemen ? Fernando

11th January 2009, 02:44 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Fernando You will see keris made up this way with the knotwork, teeth and painting also . Unfortunately I have no knowledge of whether these items are culturally signifigant or not . However I would ask this; it is a spearhead, does form follow function ?

11th January 2009, 03:05 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Fernando and Happy New Year , I think Rick might be refering to something like this... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=mandau+teeth I am intrigued with the 'bend' in the shaft and its possible function ..... even if this is a 'tourist' piece...surely it would be based on a 'local' form The spearhead looks good....but I must admit that it is a personal view.....I have very limited knowledge of SEA weapons ....but they are fascinating Kind Regards David

11th January 2009, 06:43 AM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Fernando this is for sure put together in Borneo but has nothing to do with the dayaks . Many tourist piece's are like it they have krissen,mandau's and parangs like this . This one could be made in the 50/60/70 Ben

11th January 2009, 09:31 AM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	My guess is that it is a good tombak blade in a 'bad' dress. I would disassemble the piece and only keep the tombak.

11th January 2009, 10:28 AM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Freddy, This is a javanese tombak. The mounting is from New Guinea. But it puzzles me a bit. Like Dajak noticed many of these pieces were assembled as mandau, keris and spears for the tourist market. The tourist pieces are easily to recognize because of the bright modern fabric paint used for the mountings. The paint seen on this mounting seems to be the paint used on the original New guinea pieces made from natural materials. But as you said the pictures aren't of the best quality. Don't be to hasty by throwing away these mountings.

12th January 2009, 11:09 PM	#11
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	No further coments? All right, no push needed. I've already made up my mind; will return the thing. Will buy something rather different, instead. Shall post it in European Armoury Forum, next week. Thanks all the same. Fernando

13th January 2009, 12:14 AM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I think you have made the right decision Fernando .