keris information asked

auk · 22nd July 2008, 01:16 PM

Hello to you all and greetings from cold holland

I have a keris that was passing on from my father.
He get it from the neigbours about thirty years ago.

It was full of rust now almost cleaned it and almost all of the rust is gone.
It took me weeks to remove the rust just wit a little tiny brush and some lemmons.my
There is a litle naga on it and under the rust now comes just some little trace of gold plated material on the keris.
Also there is a little golden ball in the mouth of the naga.
Also wat i know is that there is in the waranga a laughing man with a hat on is head and in the hat is a stone.
now you cant see it with your bare eye but when you lay a rice paper on it and gently draw with a pencil over it it apears and you can see him.
Can some one tels me wat it means.
i realy hope some one can give me more information about it, age type ,etcetra.
much greetings Auk

David · 23rd July 2008, 02:46 AM

Welcome Auk. Can't tell you much of anything without good, detailed photos.

Henk · 23rd July 2008, 02:10 PM

Welcome to the forum, Auk.

The weather is reasonable at the moment here.

Just like David said, with some good and detailed pictures we can tell you a lot more.

auk · 23rd July 2008, 09:33 PM

auk · 23rd July 2008, 09:36 PM

auk · 23rd July 2008, 09:38 PM

auk · 23rd July 2008, 09:41 PM

thanks fore the reply i am trying to add some photo,

greetings Auk

Rick · 23rd July 2008, 11:13 PM

Hi Auk, I have passed your posts but the links are broken to the hosting site .

Perhaps your hosting site does not allow hot-linking .

auk · 24th July 2008, 09:42 AM

Hello i got some problem by uploading the photo,s
sorry fore that.
I hope this wil work else i wil try to make better photo,s
now by cleaning it i see under the dirt just some little rests of gold on the naga and under it but verry verry little the ball in his mouth is stil ok.
further you can see on the pic but verry little shinty things in the blade.
hope you can help me with information.
Greetings Auk

Alam Shah · 24th July 2008, 10:06 AM

Welcome auk to the forum,

A nice Javanese keris in Yogyakarta dress.
An elegant blade with what seems to be dapur Naga Siluman, Luk 5.

A close-up picture at the base of the blade would be nice.

Henk · 24th July 2008, 10:12 AM

Auk,

Be careful with further cleaning the blade.

The little shiny things on the blade is what we call pamor. A keris blade is usually made from iron and nickle contenting iron. The bars of metal are twisted and forged. After finishing the keris it is etched with warangan. Warangan is lemon juice with arsenic. The etching with warangan colors the iron black or grey (depending on the sort of iron that is used) and leaves the nickle untouched. The pattern on the blade that shows up is called pamor.

As far as I can see on your picture you have a pamor wengkon. For the pamor inside the wengkon the picture is not clear enough.
It is a javanese keris from Yogyakarta. Dapur Naga Seluman 5 luk.
The naga head was gilded as you noticed remains of gold on the head of the naga and around it.
The golden ball in the mouth is also seen in the mouth of the Singha or Barong.
The sheath has the wrongko Gayaman and the gandar is covered with a pendok. Is it silver?

auk · 24th July 2008, 12:51 PM

thanks fore the information till now
the rust i am cleaning is with a verry tiny soft brush it take me hours till now days before the rust is gone .
the penok is not silver my guess it dont belong on it but i dont know fore sure.
it fits perfect in the sheat.
i wil try to make some more photo,s and better from the blade.
And wat about the story i told about the face in the wood.
i know in his how you call it tulband or javanese cap is a stone and he is laughing.
last week i had a dream and remeber the word bandung there was a man that told me to write down some words in indonesian but i cant remember it just bandung.
hope to get more informatin and i wil make better pics.
greetings Auk

auk · 24th July 2008, 03:08 PM

i cant get the photo more bright i do my best
and also the blade stays this dark
greetings Auk

Henk · 24th July 2008, 05:22 PM

It looks like pamor Beras Wutah. So with the Wenkon it should be pamor Beras Wutah Wenkon.

About the story of the face. I suppose you mean the carving in the ukiran, the hilt. The hilt is supposed to be an image of the owner. A carver of ukiran and those who studied it can describe the owner when they only see the ukiran.

auk · 24th July 2008, 06:05 PM

thanks henk fore the info about the face its not carved in the ukiran hilt but in the gayaman.
you cant see it only when the sun shine on it and holding the right angle.
greetings Auk

Rick · 24th July 2008, 08:12 PM

A rajah gundala in the wrongko wood ?

Can you get a picture ?

Henk · 24th July 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A rajah gundala in the wrongko wood ?

Can you get a picture ?

If a picture is not possible maybe a scan of the drawing on rice paper?
You made us very curious.

ganjawulung · 24th July 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auk

...last week i had a dream and remember the word bandung there was a man that told me to write down some words in indonesian but i cant remember it just bandung.

The only "bandung" I know -- in relation to keris -- is pamor "sumur bandung". Oval rings of pamor (blank or black in the center of the oval rings), from sor-soran (base) to top of the blade. But I don't think that your keris has sumur bandung pamor.

From the form of sogokan, the "garap" (work) of the other details, and also the overall appearance, I assume (speculative, not possible to make sure only based on photos...) that this is not a recent keris.

Good Naga Siluman luk 5 (there are Naga Siluman luk 7, 9 and 11 too with the similar "ricikan" but different numbers of luks). With "kelap lintah" (double curves) ganja, and "lazy" luks -- javanese call this kind of luks, as "luk kemba" for the contrary of "luk rengkol" -- more wavy luks. The keris has good jogjanese hilt too, and also very good old gayaman warangka. But I think, you need to replace the "banyumas" style (West-central Java) pendhok with Jogjanese pendhok. It would look much much more attractive...

auk · 24th July 2008, 10:23 PM

i wil try wit rice paper
wat is rajah gundala

bandung is a word i had in the dream not to long ago.
even there was a man it looks like he wanted to teach me something .
wat kind of pendok looks more atractive to it.
greetings Auk

Rick · 24th July 2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auk

i wil try wit rice paper
wat is rajah gundala

bandung is a word i had in the dream not to long ago.
even there was a man it looks like he wanted to teach me something .
wat kind of pendok looks more atractive to it.
greetings Auk

A unintended figure that is created by the pamor on a keris .

I used the term in referring to your wrongko .

Alam Shah · 25th July 2008, 01:30 AM

Hmmm... regarding Bandung, there is a city, the capital of West Java province, Indonesia. A nice city with cooler temperature, relatively year-round than most other Indonesian cities. There's a nice moutainous area where the infamous Tangkuban Prahu (upturned boat) is located.

The other Bandung that I know of is based on Yogyakarta's lore...
regarding Bandung Bandawasa whose supposedly built the Prambanan temple complex. There are plenty of supernatural spells and talisman with regards to Bandung Bandawasa.

Raden Usman Djogja · 25th July 2008, 01:49 AM

dear Auk

it is very very rare "pelet rongko" has a figure of rojogundolo. lucky you.

OeS

PenangsangII · 25th July 2008, 04:07 AM

Hi Auk, nice keris you have there.

May I know what type of stone / metal in the naga's mouth? I was wondering whether it is gold or "wesi kuning".

ganjawulung · 26th July 2008, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auk

wat kind of pendok looks more atractive to it.
greetings Auk

Dear Auk,
These are just examples of three different pendhoks -- (from left to right) Solo bunton type pendhok, Banyumas bunton type pendhok, and Jogja bunton type pendhok. The word "bunton" is originated from Javanese word "buntu" or "clogged" -- for pendhok's term means one piece pendhok. Not two piece pendhok.

You may look at the other pic, a Jogja gayaman keris with Jogjanese pendhok. The specific characteristics of the three styles, you may differ from the form of pendhok's top. Solo or Surakarta -- no curve at the top, but sometimes sliding straight. Banyumas, with curve at the top. Solo type is more wide than Jogja, but thinner. Jogja looks smaller and narrower if you look at it vertically. But it looks quite much thicker than Solonese, if you look it horizontally.

There are differences too, between the tip of pendhok of Solo and Banyumas. Solonese is more rounded than Banyumas. (Banyumas was a vassal state of Mataram in the past, situated in the western part -- near the west coast -- of Central Java. Their styles are more Solo oriented).

auk · 27th July 2008, 07:58 AM

hello there to you all
a lot of information thanks again
i like the pendok most on the right where can i buy that and in silver.
wat do you people think about the age of the keris(kingdom).
and is it somethig to restore the gold on it or leave it tis way.
can you tel me a total mesure of it.
the face isnt see so i cant place it sorry/
The bal in his mouth is gold.
and it is good to wash the keris like it supose too by some one who knows it.
greetings Auk

22nd July 2008, 01:16 PM	#1
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	keris information asked Hello to you all and greetings from cold holland I have a keris that was passing on from my father. He get it from the neigbours about thirty years ago. It was full of rust now almost cleaned it and almost all of the rust is gone. It took me weeks to remove the rust just wit a little tiny brush and some lemmons.my There is a litle naga on it and under the rust now comes just some little trace of gold plated material on the keris. Also there is a little golden ball in the mouth of the naga. Also wat i know is that there is in the waranga a laughing man with a hat on is head and in the hat is a stone. now you cant see it with your bare eye but when you lay a rice paper on it and gently draw with a pencil over it it apears and you can see him. Can some one tels me wat it means. i realy hope some one can give me more information about it, age type ,etcetra. much greetings Auk

23rd July 2008, 09:33 PM	#4
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	photo,s

23rd July 2008, 09:36 PM	#5
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	keris photo

23rd July 2008, 09:38 PM	#6
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	Last edited by auk; 24th July 2008 at 05:10 PM.

23rd July 2008, 09:41 PM	#7
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	hi thanks fore the reply i am trying to add some photo, greetings Auk Last edited by auk; 24th July 2008 at 05:12 PM.

23rd July 2008, 02:46 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Welcome Auk. Can't tell you much of anything without good, detailed photos.

23rd July 2008, 02:10 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Welcome to the forum, Auk. The weather is reasonable at the moment here. Just like David said, with some good and detailed pictures we can tell you a lot more.

23rd July 2008, 11:13 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Auk, I have passed your posts but the links are broken to the hosting site . Perhaps your hosting site does not allow hot-linking .

24th July 2008, 09:42 AM	#9
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	Hi Hello i got some problem by uploading the photo,s sorry fore that. I hope this wil work else i wil try to make better photo,s now by cleaning it i see under the dirt just some little rests of gold on the naga and under it but verry verry little the ball in his mouth is stil ok. further you can see on the pic but verry little shinty things in the blade. hope you can help me with information. Greetings Auk Attached Images

24th July 2008, 10:06 AM	#10
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Welcome auk to the forum, A nice Javanese keris in Yogyakarta dress. An elegant blade with what seems to be dapur Naga Siluman, Luk 5. A close-up picture at the base of the blade would be nice.

24th July 2008, 10:12 AM	#11
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Auk, Be careful with further cleaning the blade. The little shiny things on the blade is what we call pamor. A keris blade is usually made from iron and nickle contenting iron. The bars of metal are twisted and forged. After finishing the keris it is etched with warangan. Warangan is lemon juice with arsenic. The etching with warangan colors the iron black or grey (depending on the sort of iron that is used) and leaves the nickle untouched. The pattern on the blade that shows up is called pamor. As far as I can see on your picture you have a pamor wengkon. For the pamor inside the wengkon the picture is not clear enough. It is a javanese keris from Yogyakarta. Dapur Naga Seluman 5 luk. The naga head was gilded as you noticed remains of gold on the head of the naga and around it. The golden ball in the mouth is also seen in the mouth of the Singha or Barong. The sheath has the wrongko Gayaman and the gandar is covered with a pendok. Is it silver?

24th July 2008, 12:51 PM	#12
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	thanks thanks fore the information till now the rust i am cleaning is with a verry tiny soft brush it take me hours till now days before the rust is gone . the penok is not silver my guess it dont belong on it but i dont know fore sure. it fits perfect in the sheat. i wil try to make some more photo,s and better from the blade. And wat about the story i told about the face in the wood. i know in his how you call it tulband or javanese cap is a stone and he is laughing. last week i had a dream and remeber the word bandung there was a man that told me to write down some words in indonesian but i cant remember it just bandung. hope to get more informatin and i wil make better pics. greetings Auk

24th July 2008, 03:08 PM	#13
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	hi i cant get the photo more bright i do my best and also the blade stays this dark greetings Auk Attached Images

24th July 2008, 05:22 PM	#14
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	It looks like pamor Beras Wutah. So with the Wenkon it should be pamor Beras Wutah Wenkon. About the story of the face. I suppose you mean the carving in the ukiran, the hilt. The hilt is supposed to be an image of the owner. A carver of ukiran and those who studied it can describe the owner when they only see the ukiran.

24th July 2008, 06:05 PM	#15
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	hi thanks henk fore the info about the face its not carved in the ukiran hilt but in the gayaman. you cant see it only when the sun shine on it and holding the right angle. greetings Auk Last edited by auk; 24th July 2008 at 06:35 PM.

24th July 2008, 08:12 PM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A rajah gundala in the wrongko wood ? Can you get a picture ?

24th July 2008, 10:23 PM	#19
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	hi i wil try wit rice paper wat is rajah gundala bandung is a word i had in the dream not to long ago. even there was a man it looks like he wanted to teach me something . wat kind of pendok looks more atractive to it. greetings Auk

25th July 2008, 01:30 AM	#21
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hmmm... regarding Bandung, there is a city, the capital of West Java province, Indonesia. A nice city with cooler temperature, relatively year-round than most other Indonesian cities. There's a nice moutainous area where the infamous Tangkuban Prahu (upturned boat) is located. The other Bandung that I know of is based on Yogyakarta's lore... regarding Bandung Bandawasa whose supposedly built the Prambanan temple complex. There are plenty of supernatural spells and talisman with regards to Bandung Bandawasa.

25th July 2008, 01:49 AM	#22
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	dear Auk it is very very rare "pelet rongko" has a figure of rojogundolo. lucky you. OeS

25th July 2008, 04:07 AM	#23
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Hi Auk, nice keris you have there. May I know what type of stone / metal in the naga's mouth? I was wondering whether it is gold or "wesi kuning".

27th July 2008, 07:58 AM	#25
auk Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28	hi hello there to you all a lot of information thanks again i like the pendok most on the right where can i buy that and in silver. wat do you people think about the age of the keris(kingdom). and is it somethig to restore the gold on it or leave it tis way. can you tel me a total mesure of it. the face isnt see so i cant place it sorry/ The bal in his mouth is gold. and it is good to wash the keris like it supose too by some one who knows it. greetings Auk