Edged weapons for women?

[CutlassCollector]

Are there any bladed weapons made specifically for or adopted by women? Not much springs to mind but perhaps the huge knowledge base on this forum can suggest a few.

The sword below is a modern parade sword, but it aroused my interest and inspired the above question as it was specifically made for a woman's army unit.
Unusual enough in modern times but very unlikely that there were historical examples so I'm thinking more of personal protection - concealed knives, augmented jewelry perhaps. Any suggestions?

[Roland_M]

I hope this will help: http://www.lothene.org/women/women.html

[Rich]

The Japanese had several weapons designed mainly for women; the kwaiken is the first that comes to mind. Also, short staff naginata. Probably others also.
Rich

[fernando]

Fantastic link, Roland. Thanks for sharing.
It looks like, CC that, the sabre in exhibition is not different than that for a man. What distinguishes it would be the fact that it was made to equip a women's army, but not a sword with women's specifications. Am i right ?
Also according to Roland's link the tendence for women performing battle actions would not imply in using female weapons, although on the other habd and as Rich says, some models were designed specificaly for women.
And you have one other area, that of weapons not specificaly designed but still preferred by women, those for protection as you well suggest; the favorite one being the dagger, easy to conceal inside the bodice or tied to the leg under the dress; or even inside the boot.
Amazing the name that the French gave to these weapons: dague de pute (whore's dagger).
The examples attached don't have to historicaly be woman's daggers but, that's how they were.
I hope i was of some use and not far from the topic .

.

[drac2k]

There have been many capable women warriors, especially in the field of piracy, perfectly capable of handling all sorts of weapons;Sayyida al Hurra, Queen Teuta of Illyria, Anne Bonney, Jeanne de Clisson, Ching Shih, Grace O'Malley, Jacquotte Delahaye, Lorena Bobbitt just to mention a few.

[Roland_M]

Thank you Fernando,

I can add, that the usage of a well balanced sword is more a question of technique than pure muscle power.

There were a lot of high skilled sword fighting woman in history, even in europe in the medieval.

I would say, the advantage of a woman is, that they have more sensitiveness and they were probably faster in their movements (without the heavy armor).


Roland

[Pukka Bundook]

This is an interesting topic!

If I may add another point;
It was mentioned above that technique in a weapon's use can be more important than muscle -power.
True, Very true!........But! we must also remember that the female part of the population in many parts of the world do the "Manual labour" and are Very likely stronger than the men!
In India we see little thin stick-like ladies carrying Huge bundles of firewood, or enormous loads of whatever on their heads, that we Western chaps could barely stagger with!
Same in Africa.
One girl I read of, in either N. Pakistan or Nepal, I forget now,..for a bet, carried a Piano up a mountain on her head.....with a baby strapped to her back!
Give such a lassy a weapon and the correct instruction in its use, and she could whip the socks off a good few of us. (unless she still had the piano on her head!!)
I recall dimly a Roman writer.....was it Tacitus?? said that the Gauls could easily be defeated If they left their women at home! This is terrible paraphrasing, but you see what I mean.
In India there were women warriors, well trained and in their thousands.
I would imagine their weaponry would be light, fast tulwars for the main part.
Must go, busy day!

Richard.

[GIO]

I believe that the weapons used by women in battles were the same used by men. Weapons made specifically for women for self defence are small daggers (including tantos in Japan and kerises in Indonesia) and, in more recent times, small pistols.

[David]

In some parts of Indonesia a smaller version of the keris known as a patrem is carried by women of certain social stature.

[CutlassCollector]

Great link Roland, thanks.

Fernando, yes although the sabre looked slim and light I could not tell whether it was specifically lighter than one for an equivalent male unit. Anything else written about it was lost in translation. Judging from some of the other posts perhaps size did not matter so much!
I like the daggers for 'women of the night' and perhaps one can imagine that wealthier madams had ones made to order.

Thanks for all the posts, interesting stuff. It would be good to see a picture of a patrem/small keris or a kwaiken/small tanto made for a woman.

And thanks, also, for those posts that remind us that a modern western view of women is too narrow to encompass geography and history.

CC

[Timo Nieminen]

There are some East Asian knives for women.

Korea: The ones in posts #6, #18, #19 (and some others) are women's knives: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15166
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunjangdo

The Japanese equivalent s the kaiken, 懐剣 = "breast/bosom sword", which could be translated as "hidden knife":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiken_(dagger)
Unlike the Korean version, which functioned as display as well as a weapon, the Japanese version is hidden and thus purely a weapon. Men would carry them too.

The Japanese naginata is often considered a traditional samurai women's weapon. The wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naginata claims that there were naginata specifically for women (smaller than men's naginata). Other than that, women warriors/soldiers usually used the same weapons as men.

[Pukka Bundook]

Well put Timo.

When we stop to consider it, most swords, for instance (apart from some of the terrible reproductions ) are not at all heavy, so a woman would not be disadvantaged by their weight, even if from a part of the world where they were not a "beast of burden" (!)
My daughter in her early 20's and a mere whisp of a thing, hardly ever lost when sparring against the lads with Viking -age type swords. Reason? she was not afraid of them, and had decided ahead of time that she would not lose!
As she put it, "losing isn't an option". Maybe this sentiment isn't new.

[Timo Nieminen]

I'm skeptical about the naginata claim. There is probably a difference in size in naginata used by men on the battlefield, and naginata known to be used by women; the latter will, on average, be smaller. But this is affected by age. Earlier naginata tended to be larger, with blades becoming shorter and lighter in later times, even when naginata were still a major battlefield weapon (they largely disappeared from the battlefield in the 16th century, as warfare went to pike (i.e., long yari) and musket). Edo Period naginata were, on average, even smaller - even the ones carried by men. It's these late naginata that we know were used by women.

Tomoe Gozen, a famous woman warrior of the 12th century, is often portrayed with a naginata. However, the written sources describe her as armed with a powerful bow and a large sword. I.e., equipped the same as a male samurai, but with a stronger bow and larger sword.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoe_Gozen

Anyway, women don't seem to have difficulty wielding quite large naginata:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wem9KZeFKEA

[Pukka Bundook]

Very nice to watch Timo!

Thank you.

[carlitobrigante]

Originally Posted by drac2k

There have been many capable women warriors, especially in the field of piracy, perfectly capable of handling all sorts of weapons;Sayyida al Hurra, Queen Teuta of Illyria, Anne Bonney, Jeanne de Clisson, Ching Shih, Grace O'Malley, Jacquotte Delahaye, Lorena Bobbitt just to mention a few.

Lorena Bobbit! you almost made me spill my tea pmsl

[drac2k]

I was wondering if someone would notice ; she sure could handle a knife !

[Gavin Nugent]

Hair pins come to mind.

Many were robust and of materials and forms designed for martial applications.

Gavin

[Rick]

The most dangerous edged weapon any woman possesses lurks behind her teeth.
We, who have been under the harrow can testify.

[fernando]

[M ELEY]

Ahhh, yes, Rick! Thy wicked tongue of the shrew is truly the worst!

Maori bone daggers, if I recall, were used among the Dani and Asmat tribal women to slay straying husbands! Not my area of collecting, so perhaps someone can confirm this?
Awesome thread, BTW. I know my 16 year old daughter will aprpreciate it!

[Pukka Bundook]

I'm not sure they would import Maori bone daggers for the job, M.
Likely use home-made ones I'd Think.
Many Asmat men carried such a human-bone knife tied to the forearm....maybe their better halves did as well??

[DaveA]

In Sumatra, the siraui is easily concealed in the hair of women or folds of clothing. It is both a working knife and a self defense weapon. I do not think it is specific for women; merely one that is preferred.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by DaveA

In Sumatra, the siraui is easily concealed in the hair of women or folds of clothing. It is both a working knife and a self defense weapon. I do not think it is specific for women; merely one that is preferred.

Hello Dave,

the shown knife isn't a siraui, we still look for the correct name of this knives. For a real siraui look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=siraui

Regards,
Detlef

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

Anyway, women don't seem to have difficulty wielding quite large naginata:
[url

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wem9KZeFKEA[/url]

Well, they learned early on that longer is better

[DaveA]

Thank you. I will reexamine my sources.
Dave

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Dave,

the shown knife isn't a siraui, we still look for the correct name of this knives. For a real siraui look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=siraui

Regards,
Detlef

[DaveA]

Thank you. I will reexamine my sources.
Dave

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Dave,

the shown knife isn't a siraui, we still look for the correct name of this knives. For a real siraui look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=siraui

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

The Sangi is often referred to as a "woman's knife" though men apparently use them as well.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sangi

[Sajen]

The curved small knives from Indonesia, korambit, lawi ayam are typical woman knives.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=lawi+ayam
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=lawi+ayam
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=korambit