Mediterranean knife?

kronckew · 29th January 2008, 09:24 PM

just picked this up on ebay, described as:
===========ebay item description==========
Antique Victorian Egyptian / Islamic design dagger. The dagger dates between 1880-1920 and measures 25cm (10 inches) long. The handle is made of what looks to be pieces of either wood or horn (or both). The blade has some slight corrosion to it (see photos) but otherwise the dagger is in good condition for it's age. blade 6 in.
=====================================

pommel end:

Ebay item link

looks more gaucho/spanish or 'mediterranean' to me.

spiral · 29th January 2008, 10:28 PM

Nice one Kronckew! But well Egypt is still Meditearainian

Bolster looks islamic to my eye.

Id say thats all horn rings on the handle.

Blade looks wootzy? But perhaps just old rust tracks? close up picks when you get it would be good.

Spiral

Battara · 29th January 2008, 11:47 PM

Another possiblity - an old Syrian piece done for the Victorian market?

The horn layers on the hilt and the brass work look Syrian-Lebanese to me.

RobT · 30th January 2008, 02:37 AM

Hi All,
I agree with Battara. I just looked at my two Majali Shams jambiyia and the butt caps on both (with the exposed tang) look very similar to kronckew's blade.
Sincerely,
RobT

kronckew · 30th January 2008, 07:33 AM

thanks, it does have the same overall shaped hilt as my little lebanese dagger:

i knew i'd seen that shaped hilt with a peened brass pommel plate somewhere.
the last weapon i bought that was listed as 'egyptian' was really a very nice dha, so i've learned to be a bit sceptical of 'egyptian'

Battara · 30th January 2008, 07:55 PM

This last one you posted is more recent. The other one is older perhaps by a century.

katana · 30th January 2008, 08:04 PM

Well done Kronckew,
I ... like Spiral, also thinks there seems to be a 'wootzy like' patternation......I e-mailed the seller for more pics before the auction ended (just in case) but never received any ......so ended up not bidding. I think it's a nice knife and if it is wootz

..but please, if it is....would you keep it to yourself ...otherwise I will be 'kicking myself silly' for a fortnight

Kind Regards David

Battara · 30th January 2008, 08:08 PM

Holy Moses!

Missed that - now I see elements of that in the picture. It may not be for the tourist trade if it is wootz. Import blade with Syrian-Lebanese work.

kronckew · 2nd February 2008, 05:08 PM

well, it arrived today, needed a bit of a clean as it had a layer of black grease on it, a bit of soap and water (plus a light going over with some FeCl followed by a baking soda bath) and a good oiling later.
starboard side

port side: the dark areas were where active rust was before cleaning. the light areas were not rusted.

katana asked i not tell him if it was wootz or not. i thus leave it up for question.

blade is in reasonable shape for 100+years, but of denting on the spine where it had been batonned, there is a slight wiggle in the blade where it likely was bent and straigtened in the past.

final shot of right side from another angle. there does seem to be a bit of a dendritic patterning.....

for comparison, a homogeneous steel blade i treated earlier

Ferguson · 2nd February 2008, 05:28 PM

Nice piece Kronck! I think I see some type of activity in the steel. Probably easier seen in person than in the photos.

Steve

katana · 2nd February 2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

katana asked i not tell him if it was wootz or not. i thus leave it up for question.

final shot of right side from another angle. there does seem to be a bit of a dendritic patterning.....

Oh good.....not wootz then

kronckew · 2nd February 2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Nice piece Kronck! I think I see some type of activity in the steel. Probably easier seen in person than in the photos.

Steve

yes, hard to get just the right angle, not much natural light at the moment & my batteries are now recharging in the camera, will take some more daylight photos tommorrow.

Battara · 2nd February 2008, 09:13 PM

STeve is right - I do see activity - more likely lamination, but it could be wootz (don't think so though) - can tell more after an etch to see.......

ausjulius · 6th September 2008, 07:53 AM

may be alittle late to chip in,,, but in all honesty the knife you posted looks like it is from corsica or sardinia... as the native knives look in this fashion......

kahnjar1 · 6th September 2008, 09:36 AM

Just to add to the mystery, my guess would be a KARD from the Balkans area.

29th January 2008, 09:24 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Mediterranean knife? just picked this up on ebay, described as: ===========ebay item description========== Antique Victorian Egyptian / Islamic design dagger. The dagger dates between 1880-1920 and measures 25cm (10 inches) long. The handle is made of what looks to be pieces of either wood or horn (or both). The blade has some slight corrosion to it (see photos) but otherwise the dagger is in good condition for it's age. blade 6 in. ===================================== pommel end: Ebay item link looks more gaucho/spanish or 'mediterranean' to me.

30th January 2008, 02:37 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	Syrian for me also Hi All, I agree with Battara. I just looked at my two Majali Shams jambiyia and the butt caps on both (with the exposed tang) look very similar to kronckew's blade. Sincerely, RobT

29th January 2008, 10:28 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Nice one Kronckew! But well Egypt is still Meditearainian Bolster looks islamic to my eye. Id say thats all horn rings on the handle. Blade looks wootzy? But perhaps just old rust tracks? close up picks when you get it would be good. Spiral

29th January 2008, 11:47 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Another possiblity - an old Syrian piece done for the Victorian market? The horn layers on the hilt and the brass work look Syrian-Lebanese to me.

30th January 2008, 07:33 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	thanks, it does have the same overall shaped hilt as my little lebanese dagger: i knew i'd seen that shaped hilt with a peened brass pommel plate somewhere. the last weapon i bought that was listed as 'egyptian' was really a very nice dha, so i've learned to be a bit sceptical of 'egyptian'

30th January 2008, 07:55 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	This last one you posted is more recent. The other one is older perhaps by a century.

30th January 2008, 08:04 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Well done Kronckew, I ... like Spiral, also thinks there seems to be a 'wootzy like' patternation......I e-mailed the seller for more pics before the auction ended (just in case) but never received any ......so ended up not bidding. I think it's a nice knife and if it is wootz ..but please, if it is....would you keep it to yourself ...otherwise I will be 'kicking myself silly' for a fortnight Kind Regards David

30th January 2008, 08:08 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Holy Moses! Missed that - now I see elements of that in the picture. It may not be for the tourist trade if it is wootz. Import blade with Syrian-Lebanese work.

2nd February 2008, 05:08 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	well, it arrived today, needed a bit of a clean as it had a layer of black grease on it, a bit of soap and water (plus a light going over with some FeCl followed by a baking soda bath) and a good oiling later. starboard side port side: the dark areas were where active rust was before cleaning. the light areas were not rusted. katana asked i not tell him if it was wootz or not. i thus leave it up for question. blade is in reasonable shape for 100+years, but of denting on the spine where it had been batonned, there is a slight wiggle in the blade where it likely was bent and straigtened in the past. final shot of right side from another angle. there does seem to be a bit of a dendritic patterning..... for comparison, a homogeneous steel blade i treated earlier

2nd February 2008, 05:28 PM	#10
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Nice piece Kronck! I think I see some type of activity in the steel. Probably easier seen in person than in the photos. Steve

2nd February 2008, 09:13 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	STeve is right - I do see activity - more likely lamination, but it could be wootz (don't think so though) - can tell more after an etch to see.......

6th September 2008, 07:53 AM	#14
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 422	may be alittle late to chip in,,, but in all honesty the knife you posted looks like it is from corsica or sardinia... as the native knives look in this fashion......

6th September 2008, 09:36 AM	#15
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Just to add to the mystery, my guess would be a KARD from the Balkans area.