Two African knives

[Ian]

I recently purchased a Moro spear head which was part of a lot. It came with two African knives shown here.

The first is a nice old double-edged dagger with silver mounts on the hilt, a disc pommel and a full length tang peined over the end of the hilt. The blade is double-edged and has an Arabic inscription on one side. OAL 9.75 in. Blade 6 in. Hilt 3.75 in.







The second is another double-edged knife in a wooden scabbard bound with segments of wound copper wire. The flattened elliptical wooden hilt has similar wire wrapped bands. The blade on this one is very interesting and is constructed in a way I have not seen before. Think of a blade with a flattened diamond cross-section coming to an acute point. To one side of the longitudinal midline ridge the blade has been hollowed out such that it is concave from the middle to the edge. This is repeated on the other side such that each concave half is backed by a flat half on the other side. In this way, a double-edged knife has been created fairly easily. OAL in scabbard 16.5 in. OAL out of scabbard 16.3 in. Blade 10.5 in. Hilt 5.8 in.






I'm looking for help in placing the origin of these two knives.

[Marc M.]

Hi Ian

The first one is a Soudan arm dagger of good quality, probaly fur.
The second is from South Africa, Shona i think. See at the site african-weapons.com for simular examples.

Best regards
Marc

[Edster]

I agree with Marc that the top one is Sudanese, top notch. I'd go with Eastern Sudan due to the Black Wood grip. Maybe Mahdi Period or early 20th C. The inscription may provide a better clue.

Best,
Ed

[Pertinax]

Congratulations Ian , great acquisitions. I support Marc, the shape of the second knife is also characteristic of sword Shi
Regards, Yuri.

[Ian]

Marc, Ed and Pertinax,

Thanks for your prompt replies and very helpful information. I appreciate the ID of these two knives. African knives and swords have not been a major focus for me. However, I do like both of them and I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of both. The little Sudanese dagger is a very nice knife and looks to be reasonably old, perhaps late 19th C. The South African large knife/short sword is of interesting construction and good quality, as you noted. I think this one is early- to mid-20th C, and does not seem to have been used. Each was made as a weapon, and not simply decorative, tourist items or for ceremonial use.

Ian.

[Ian]

An interesting old thread on Sudanese arm daggers here.

[Ian]

With regard to the second dagger, I found a very similar example on Artzi Yarom's old site. Here is what Artzi said about his knife:

... this authentic dagger of the Shona people residing in Zimbabwe and South Africa. It is of the classical Shona dagger shape, straight blade 9 ½ inches long, with almost parallel edges, tapering to an acute tip in the last three inches or so. The blade is step folded longwise and decorated with black patina on one half. Hard wood handle and scabbard bound with twisted and plaited copper wire. Total length 15 inches. ...

The description and pictures fit my second knife very closely, including the "dark patina" referenced by Oriental Arms.
.

[tomato77]

My gratulations. I love african knifes. The second one is indeed of the Shona - sometimes called Mashona as well. This type of dagger is called Bakatwa. This interesting blade type is typical for these daggers. They often feature ornamental carvings on sheath and hilt as well. Take a look at mine I got in 2009 in South Africa.

Best

Thomas

[Ian]

From: https://www.jacarandatribal.com/items/shona-knife

Shona Knife - Bakatwa, Zimbabwe

In historical times, all Shona men carried a knife or sword of some kind, for use in self-defense and hunting. The ceremonial bakatwa can be distinguished from everyday Shona blades (known as banga) because of its double-edged form and the intricate woven brass wire decoration on the hilt. This weapon was accorded a high level of prestige in traditional Shona religious practice.

Bakatwa were and are passed downfrom generation to generation in a lineage and were used in religious rituals to symbolize the presence of the owner's ancestors, the sword's previous owners. In these rituals, the owner addressed the bakatwa as if it was the physical embodiment of his ancestors. This link between the spirits and these swords also meant that n'angas (diviner-healers) and svikiros (spirit-mediums) carried them as the insignia of their profession. Certain Shona hunters were traditionally believed to be under the spiritual influence and guidance of deceased hunters, known as shave spirits, so they also carried bakatwas as a symbol of their spirit ally.

The traditional carrying of plainer, more functional swords as everyday weapons dwindled under the influence of Christian missionaries. TheGovernment also launched drives to prevent men traveling armed during the civil unrest of the 1970s. This meant that knives and swords were largely restricted to ceremonial use. However, bakatwa have enjoyed something of a renaissance in recent years, as symbols of traditional cultural identity and Zimbabwean independence from British imperialism. Some recent examples of bakatwa have even been forged to resemble AK-47 machine-guns, with the blade sheathed inside the gun's barrel. (cf Pitt Rivers Museum, Bakatwa).

[G. Mansfield]

Hi Ian, your Sudanese arm dagger script on the blade may have the twin cities of Omdurman or Khartoum engraved on the blade. This is the most common engravings that I see on these and are at times illegible, mimicking similar blades by more literate smiths. Other markings are using dates, typically 1898 to 1901 during the establishment of the condominium of the Anglo- Egyptian Sudan. Less often are makers or owner names but they do occasionally show up. The pommel caps are usually silver alloy but sometimes have an Ottoman Egyptian qirsh coin on the end.

This arm dagger being fitted with the silver mounts is on the above average side carved from an African black wood. Unfortunately, missing is sheath. Date is likely around 1900 – 1925. It is a good example of the type. I attached an example that I have and a link to more information about it. As for the Shona dagger, others may be able to help as I have never handled one yet. It does look to have considerable age and nice wirework though!

https://www.the-mansfield-collection...ver-arm-dagger

Geoffrey

[Ian]

Geoffrey,

Thank you for your assessment of the Sudanese dagger and narrowing down its age to about 100+ years. Close enough to call it "antique." That is a very beautiful dagger that you show. Congratulations on finding such a prestigious piece.

I am grateful that I ended up with an "above average" example out of this lot.

[Sajen]

Hi Ian,

A beautiful Sudanese arm dagger of very good quality.
The second long dagger is indeed a Shona dagger of good age, old or antique and has nothing to do with a Shi sword.

Here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=dagger you can see an arm dagger which I sold years ago, also with inscription on the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

[Marc M.]

Two of my soudan armdaggers.

[Sajen]

What happened to the wooden guard by the right one?

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Sajen

What happened to the wooden guard by the right one?

Hi Detlef

Its a leather tribal repair to the handle. Maybe the handle was broken, very solid.

Best regards
Marc

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Marc M.

Its a leather tribal repair to the handle. Maybe the handle was broken, very solid.

Hi Marc,

Thank you! Interesting tribal repair!

Regards,
Detlef